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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder if you know that the meat you buy could have been raised in a factory farm...

625 replies

MsWonderful · 26/08/2020 19:01

And that the animals could also have been subjected to horrific cruelty even if the farm is Red Tractor approved?
www.daventry.radio/daventry-farm-suspended-from-red-tractor-scheme-amid-animal-welfare-concerns/

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
SistineScreamer · 27/08/2020 11:18

[quote TheHappyHerbivore]@SistineScreamer

So just to be clear, when you said the following things:

They shouldn't be forced or guilted to change their diet

Don't ram it down someone's throat, literally in this sense

I don't believe my life choices are superior to begin with, but I won't force them on other people.

What I'm uncomfortable with is that so many of you think it's fine to force other to be vegan/veggie.

It also won't make it anymore wrong to force someone on a low income over to veggie because they can't afford organic meat.

It doesn't matter how good your cause is, if you're going to force people into that says it all really.

My issue is the attitude of people on here who think it's acceptable to force their lifestyle onto other people because - you don't agree with it?

My issue is - people thinking it's fine to force their lifestyles on others because ....the animals?

It's people either telling others to alter their diets or thinking it's fine to force it on others outright that baffles me.

What you ACTUALLY meant was:

I KNOW no one is forcing me to do anything. I also KNOW a thread can't force people to do anything.

Do I have that right?[/quote]
Also we're back to the thread thing! I KNOW this thread isn't going to overtake the world and force them into veggie slavery.

Seriously my issue is that thought is a utopia for some of you. I know it's personal but....nope. Still not tempted to forced a steak down your throat and hope(?) you end up liking it/getting used to it. 🙄

MsWonderful · 27/08/2020 11:20

There’s been no suggestion of forcing people to not eat meat though? You’re the one who keeps going on about forcing people to do or not do various things! No one keeps going on about forcing except you

OP posts:
MsWonderful · 27/08/2020 11:20

More forcing in your latest post. It’s getting a bit weird now tbh

OP posts:
40andginger · 27/08/2020 11:21

Doccomplaint

That's the problem you don't care your selfish
If people treated you dog or cat the way they treated famred animals Im sure you would care then
We don't need to eat meat we do because we choose to
We could choose to eat none or less or better reared meat
We could go and hunt our own meat but you won't

Doccomplaint · 27/08/2020 11:23

My dog and cat are pets. Farmed Animals aren’t.

I don’t eat dog or cat meat.

Humans are omnivores. We domt in the main In the U.K. hunt our own meat.

We have ethical standards in this country that meat has to adhere to.

I’m still happy eating meat.

TheHappyHerbivore · 27/08/2020 11:24

@SistineScreamer I honestly don’t know how to respond, because on the one hand you’re accusing people of wanting to force others not to eat meat, and then on the other you’re happily agreeing that nobody is doing that.

I can’t reconcile these completely opposing statements to figure out what you actually mean?

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 27/08/2020 11:25

Yes and it bothers me hugely. I used to think the red tractor scheme meant something but it appears meaningless.

I buy organic meat rarely - so I less.

Suzi888 · 27/08/2020 11:30

It’s barbaric, either way you cut it.
Granted the animal being abused is an extra added disgusting element.
That’s why I don’t eat meat, plus the health risks.
Same with dairy.
But my husband and child love their meat.... so we buy it and always get organic/free.

“Well most meat I eat has existed solely in the first place purely to be eaten...” you do realise meat doesn’t ‘exist’ it comes from an animal! Confused even my four year old knows where her food comes from.

swimster01 · 27/08/2020 11:37

@LunchBoxPolice

I really can’t afford to care about how the animals I eat have been treated. I can’t buy organic and I won’t stop eating meat.
That's a choice though, it isn't forced upon you by your financial circumstances
Baaaahhhhh · 27/08/2020 11:39

Well most meat I eat has existed solely in the first place purely to be eaten...” you do realise meat doesn’t ‘exist’ it comes from an animal

Don't be silly. You know what that means. If we didn't eat beef or drink milk there is no need for herds of cows, if we didn't eat chicken or eat eggs, no need for flocks of chickens etc etc. We would go back to subsistence farming with families owning one of two cows and chickens for their own use, and growing their own vegetables. Good luck with that if you live in a city/town.

MrsKingfisher · 27/08/2020 11:42

I think it's important for people to understand where their meat comes from and how the animals are treated and then decide if that matters enough to either buy better or choose to not eat meat.

So many of us turn a blind eye to the suffering of the animals we eat.

updownroundandround · 27/08/2020 11:56

@ MsWonderful

I’m aiming to inform consumers of where their money might be going, whether they’re on low incomes or not.

You are positively dripping self righteousness aren't you ? Hmm

I'm afraid that both your user name and your choice of language are going to irritate a lot of posters, regardless of their stance on Red Tractor Farm produce.............I know it's irritated me by the time I got to your second post.

Doccomplaint · 27/08/2020 11:59

I know exactly where my money is going.

Still doesn’t bother me.

Unless packaging states free range/organic I assume factory farmed or similar.

Still eat meat.

MitziK · 27/08/2020 12:01

@BewareTheBeardedDragon

You are talking about vegetarian diets which can still include a degree of animal cruelty if from dubious sources. And nobody is saying people need to eat meat...but people in poverty are allowed that choice too . They are - but it's still a choice, and what I said equally applies to vegan food.

Fwiw - I have been on a very low income having to feed picky children on a very low budget.

Also - there are choices which vegetarians can make about the welfare of animals producing dairy or eggs that they eat as well. I only buy organic animal products now, and I sincerely hope this means that they are not living shitty horrible lives while producing stuff that I eat. And I spend less buying organic milk, cheese, eggs than I did when I bought non organic and also meat products.

Scrowy what you describe re.using cheap cuts from good sources sounds great and all the TV chefs go on about it, but I was always frustrated to find when trying to follow their "money saving" advice at the supermarket was impossible - even if they had the cuts they weren't cheap as the TV chefs had lead me to believe they would be. What you say makes so much sense.

The trouble with TV chefs going on about buying cheap cuts is that it instantly resulted in a massive increase in price for those cheap cuts. By talking about them, they caused the rise in demand and huge increase in cost.

For example, skirt steak, eight years ago, was cheaper than stewing steak. Now sold as bavettes. Lamb neck fillet - was about £3 a piece - now it's super expensive. Pork loin fillet - five years ago, I paid £4.50 for organic/free range/outdoor reared and you could get non-organic for £3.20ish. Now they're a tenner each. A small gammon joint was around £4 right up to just before Christmas even in 2018. They're currently a tenner this year. Even lamb shanks were super cheap and, whilst I'm going back another ten years to 2005, I could buy four for about £4.50 (they were around £8 each in pubs). If you can get them, rather than their all going into high cost microwave meals, they're massively more expensive and the cheaper ones are now more likely to be forelegs.

Every single one of these cheaper items were fine until the very second a TV chef said 'why don't you eat these?'. Which is also exactly what happened with fish/seafood - Guernard is brilliant and cost bugger all, Pollock was a quarter if not less of the price of other white fish - except Coley. That was for cats in a lot of people's minds, so was practically pennies. Even fruit and vegetables went from cheap to aspirational - Rhubarb, Kohl Rabi, Kale and Celeriac aren't super delicate, practically gold plated veggies. Fucking cauliflower - cheapest of the cheap ten years ago. Now look at the price.

When I'm working, I don't get anywhere near a butcher during opening hours and I'm certainly not trusting an £80 Riverford organics meat & veg box to still be in the front garden nine hours after I left the house.

It's all very well saying Eat Less of It But More Expensive. But if it's already your only meat based meat of the week, going from £6 to £21 is not a reasonable expectation.

And no, going vegetarian/vegan isn't something to be enforced upon people - oh, you're poor, so you don't get to have meat or fish - that's for rich people, not the likes of you - or 'well, you're poor and I don't approve of anybody having animal products, so I don't care, you can eat potatoes' is what people hear.

I make the choices I can afford. I know what the worst of the conditions are and I know what the better conditions involve. I know what slaughtering/processing involves. I know what it involved long before livestock had to be transported miles for slaughter.

Don't patronise me or others by assuming that everybody is too stupid to know.

MitziK · 27/08/2020 12:02

(adding the end paragraphs are directed at the OP and others, not you, Dragon. Sorry I didn't made that clear)

MsWonderful · 27/08/2020 12:08

@updownroundandround

@ MsWonderful

I’m aiming to inform consumers of where their money might be going, whether they’re on low incomes or not.

You are positively dripping self righteousness aren't you ? Hmm

I'm afraid that both your user name and your choice of language are going to irritate a lot of posters, regardless of their stance on Red Tractor Farm produce.............I know it's irritated me by the time I got to your second post.

My username is ironic. I don’t think it’s particularly self-righteous to tell people that they may be paying for calves to be abused is it? If you find that irritating 🤷‍♀️ try playing the ball, not the (wo)man
OP posts:
MsWonderful · 27/08/2020 12:12

Don't patronise me or others by assuming that everybody is too stupid to know

I don’t think that because someone might not or doesn’t know something, that it makes them stupid. That’s a really bad attitude towards knowledge and learning that you’ve got there!

OP posts:
TheHappyHerbivore · 27/08/2020 12:17

I do think it’s interesting how defensive people get about this issue. OP’s post is so uncontroversial - literally just making people aware that a food standard intended to show high welfare products is not necessarily a functioning guarantee. Anyone who relies on that label would, I’d have thought, be interested to know that it might not be fit for purpose.

And yet some of the responses! Accusing OP of being smug and self righteous, and the number of posters actively proclaiming with pride how little they care about animal cruelty and how meaningless animal welfare standards are to them.

I think meat consumption is just something people feel so defensive about that they take an extreme, entrenched position that is actually some way beyond how they really feel.

Brainwave89 · 27/08/2020 12:19

I live in a rural area with many farms around me. In my view most of the treatment of farm animals is very good. One farm treating animals badly cannot logically be used to conclude that all farms are bad. I am very interested in getting good quality meat, which for the record is not always organic, but does ensure good welfare standards. Norfolk salt marsh lamb is lovely.....

MrsKingfisher · 27/08/2020 12:19

Most meat eaters who have the don't care attitude are probably pet owners who would be horrified if they discovered someone's pet was being abused, but that's ok because it's a pet. Farm animals apparently don't deserve the same degree of respect. Some of the replies on here are awful.

Ihaventgottimeforthis · 27/08/2020 12:20

This farm was below basic standards of Cross Compliance and Red Tractor, so this is not normal or acceptable.

Zero grazing is not an inherently bad system, even though it is different from what many people expect dairy to look like. But it can support high animal welfare standards and efficient food production.

Bad practice & cruelty in farming is uncommon, and not simply linked to 'factory farming' (there are a number of instances of smallholders leaving animals in shocking situations) but yes it would help if people could allocate a bit more of their weekly budget to buying higher-quality meat, and perhaps eating a bit less of it.
UK produced, Red Tractor, RSPCA, organic, local butcher is my very approximate hierarchy.

Ihaventgottimeforthis · 27/08/2020 12:20

Same goes for dairy. In fact I would be surprised if this system was beef, not dairy.

Happyheartlovelife · 27/08/2020 12:25

I don't eat meat. I don't eat food.

But my children and husband do. They love their meat

I buy from my butchers (who are actually cheaper than tesco!). I've known him and his family for many years. So I know it comes from a free range farm. I make it my duty to buy good meat. Not as in price. But from a good place. However I live right by tina if farmers. So it's quite easy to buy good meat here at a good price

formerbabe · 27/08/2020 12:26

@Happyheartlovelife. You don't eat food? Confused

MsWonderful · 27/08/2020 12:39

@TheHappyHerbivore yes it is uncontroversial isn’t it? I was starting to doubt myself then. Even my user name was attacked, it was just meant to be a stupid joke because I’m single and looking for MrWonderful, and also a joke to myself because I tend to put myself down quite a lot.

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