To wonder if you know that the meat you buy could have been raised in a factory farm...

[MsWonderful]

And that the animals could also have been subjected to horrific cruelty even if the farm is Red Tractor approved?
www.daventry.radio/daventry-farm-suspended-from-red-tractor-scheme-amid-animal-welfare-concerns/

I suppose it is AIBU though so fair enough

Doccomplaint

I'm just glad everyone doesn't have your opinion
If everyone stopped buying meat they new came from poor practice farms then the farms would have to step up their game
People can make a difference
Why are your pets life's more important than a farmed animals life? Do farmed animals not feel pain?
They dont know any different if they are raised that way but it doesn't make it ok!
If you want to eat meat that's your choice but given it can actually increase your chances of types of cancer, diabetes & obesity then I'm happy to avoid it and not give it to my family
It's the way you are saying you don't care about these animals being hurt that makes me think there is something wrong with you and I hope your opinions dont rub off on your kids

@MsWonderful

Don't patronise me or others by assuming that everybody is too stupid to know

I don’t think that because someone might not or doesn’t know something, that it makes them stupid. That’s a really bad attitude towards knowledge and learning that you’ve got there!

Oh, so they're not stupid, they're just ignorant (as in the actual meaning of the word).

That doesn't go down well, either.

Unfortunately any system that has a group of beings who are powerful over another group, whether the groups are both humans (like in a prison for example) or whether one group is human and the other group are animals (like on a farm) has the potential to be an environment where abuses take place. And also will attract some people who enjoy being abusive. Disclaimer: I know not all farmers or farm workers are like that. It’s just a small percentage who are allowed to get away with it in certain areas.

@MitziK Ignorant of one particular fact, perhaps, if you insist on putting it like that. Seems a bit rude to me, but you do you.
I don’t think they are generally ignorant though, no. And nothing I have said has suggested that I do.

@mswonderful

Agreed

The abuse that happens in some care homes is horrifying and of course if people knew they would not send their family members there

But they choose to ignore what happens to animals

@MitziK come on now, you’re picking a fight where there isn’t one. OP never called anyone stupid or ignorant, or insinuated that they were. She simply called attention to a fact that people might not know.

I hadn’t been aware of the issues OP posted about until she raised them. I don’t think that makes me stupid or ignorant, and I certainly didn’t get the impression that OP was suggesting I am.

I think you’re just trying to attack the OP and insinuate bad intentions because it’s easier or more entertaining than considering the actual point she made.

So, a farm didn’t meet the Red Tractor standards, and has been penalised as a result, which suggests that the system works.

Or is your point that the Red Tractor standards aren’t high enough?

I don’t eat loads of meat, and I do care about welfare. I guess the “next step up” from Red Tractor is free range / organic meat, if you are saying Red Tractor’s standards actually aren’t good enough?

@ MsWonderful

I see you no differently than the religious zealot door knockers who come round on a Sunday morning at 8am and insist on trying to discuss why I should believe in God.

Do I go round to their houses at 2am, with a bottle of wine and try to convince them to convert to my life choices ?? Nope, I don't

Your opinion is just that, yours, and I'm simply not interested in being subjected to your sanctimonious preaching, on any subject.

I'll offer advice if it's asked for, and perhaps you'd get different results if that's what you'd done.................instead of being all ''you all have to listen to my opinions, because you're all so ignorant and wrong.............

@MsWonderful

Unfortunately any system that has a group of beings who are powerful over another group, whether the groups are both humans (like in a prison for example) or whether one group is human and the other group are animals (like on a farm) has the potential to be an environment where abuses take place. And also will attract some people who enjoy being abusive. Disclaimer: I know not all farmers or farm workers are like that. It’s just a small percentage who are allowed to get away with it in certain areas.

I think it's also about putting profits first though, mass production, cheap prices, race to the bottom.

Thank OP for posting this.

Animals deserve more respect and they certainly don't deserve to be abused.

I always buy free-range. I'd rather go without, which is a good thing!

@MitziK I think the OP phrased that quite diplomatically actually.

And given that one of the Cambridge dictionary definitions of ignorant is “not having enough knowledge, understanding, or information about something” it is actually very accurate in this instance.

I think we probably should all cut down on our meat consumption and buy organic/free range. We'd be healthier, husbandry may improve and the environment would benefit. We have a sugar tax perhaps we should have a beef tax that goes directly towards better animal welfare.

@Estrellente

So, a farm didn’t meet the Red Tractor standards, and has been penalised as a result, which suggests that the system works.

Or is your point that the Red Tractor standards aren’t high enough?

I don’t eat loads of meat, and I do care about welfare. I guess the “next step up” from Red Tractor is free range / organic meat, if you are saying Red Tractor’s standards actually aren’t good enough?

My point is that animals were abused, and the abuse was exposed by undercover filming by animal rights activists, not by an inspection by Red tractor

@updownroundandround

@ MsWonderful

I see you no differently than the religious zealot door knockers who come round on a Sunday morning at 8am and insist on trying to discuss why I should believe in God.

Do I go round to their houses at 2am, with a bottle of wine and try to convince them to convert to my life choices ?? Nope, I don't

Your opinion is just that, yours, and I'm simply not interested in being subjected to your sanctimonious preaching, on any subject.

I'll offer advice if it's asked for, and perhaps you'd get different results if that's what you'd done.................instead of being all ''you all have to listen to my opinions, because you're all so ignorant and wrong.............

Wow! Is mine the only thread that you’ve responded to in this way? It’s only words on a screen.

Have I preached sanctimoniously, or have I just started a thread about something that actually happened and asked if anyone knew about it? I haven’t even said anything about vegetarianism or veganism I don’t think?

I’d love it if they did away with the meat and dairy industry. I think one day that probably will happen, at least as we know it now.

@TheHappyHerbivore

If you can’t tell the difference between someone intruding on your house in the middle of the night to harangue you and YOU deciding to open, read and engage with a thread which has a title that clearly states the subject matter of the post, then you might actually be a lunatic and I would suggest that an OPEN FORUM where people can post about whatever the fuck they like is not an ideal environment for you.

ALL OF THIS- well said.

You have been very patient op with the numerous posters who clearly didn’t even bother reading the article and barge in to triumphantly claim that the Red Tractor scheme must therefore be working.

It’s just basic manners isn’t it to at least watch the video and read the article?

They will no doubt be slating the awful animals rights activists who put up the secret cameras next.

Private property and all that.

As someone who works with farmers, I don't think Red Tractor standards are high enough, and I also don't think Red Tractor inspections will always catch all of the problems.
I'd usually try to look for higher quality than RT, like RSPCA (which still isn't top) or free range, outdoor reared etc.
But a lot of this produce is going into processed meals, restaurants and so on, where consumers have less information and less influence.

OK, I understand now- I hadn’t properly processed the bit about it not being an inspection that uncovered the breaches. Thank you for clarifying it for me. I think lots of people will see the sticker and assume it means a higher standard than it clearly does.

When I buy packets of meat I will generally look for free range or organic now, then. I don’t buy very much actually BUT this thread has also made me think about ready meals- I have been losing weight lately so have used some of the low calorie ready meals for portion control but of course the meat in them won’t be free range or necessarily even Red Tractor I guess- so perhaps I will move to veggie alternatives of those.

Thanks for the info :)

This will all be useless when our supermarkets are full of food with no country of origin includin American hormone fed cattle, chlorine washed chickens and GM fruit and veg.

@squeekums

*I was responding to lljk’s post which said that maybe s/he was not compassionate because s/he doesn’t think about where food comes from. Not betting on anything.* Its a turn of phrase meaning don't be so confident in your belief that people who put other values shopping first are in the minority. Look at the shops, it's the majority who shop with price and likes first. Questioning ones compassion levels over how they choose to eat is naive at best, rude and arrogant at worst

Well if they just stopped being so bloody tasty it would help

So true

Still catching up but couldn't ignore this. There is nothing rude or arrogant in stating that people who, like you, say they don't know or care where their food is coming from and say this in response to serious animal abuse coming to light, lack compassion. It is a straight up objective fact. It is not possible to know that the meat you are eating could have lived a horrific miserable life of pain and fear, and not care about that, and claim to have compassion. People who know, and feel bad about it but don't feel able to stop eating meat for some reason have got compassion - hence feeling bad. But those like you and others who literally say they don't give a shit? Nope.

Thank you to everyone who has thanked me for the info and not suggested I’m likely to turn up on their doorstep forcing them to eat a veggie burger