To wonder if you know that the meat you buy could have been raised in a factory farm...

[MsWonderful]

And that the animals could also have been subjected to horrific cruelty even if the farm is Red Tractor approved?
www.daventry.radio/daventry-farm-suspended-from-red-tractor-scheme-amid-animal-welfare-concerns/

Please feel free to watch a RSPCA/red tractor approved video of a pig slowly being gassed in a cage
Yes, I’ve seen this. It’s very very upsetting to watch. I don’t think most people realise that this is a way of stunning pigs which is used in the U.K. It certainly doesn’t look very humane when you see them struggle and panic

We produce most of our own meat, and can’t make it for supermarket prices. (Admittedly using more traditional breeds with marginally longer life before slaughter). Diets of 30-40 years ago with less meat (once or twice a week) due to price were fine and in my opinion should become the norm again to enable higher welfare standards.

Diets of 30-40 years ago with less meat (once or twice a week) due to price were fine and in my opinion should become the norm again to enable higher welfare standards
This would have a positive effect on animal welfare, human health, and the environment!

People only have a certain amount of energy (not to mention money) to give to "causes". Personally, this is not important enough to me to worry about, in the grand scheme of things. There are bigger problems in the world, imo, and I can only care about so many of them without making life a misery.

Also, not everyone can afford to buy organic, free-range, "morally approved" meat.

I buy meat from my local village butcher. I can literally see the animals across the road outside my house. They have a good life, which wouldn't otherwise exist at all. Get over yourself.

@LadyMonicaBaddingham

I buy meat from my local village butcher. I can literally see the animals across the road outside my house. They have a good life, which wouldn't otherwise exist at all. Get over yourself.

I’m clearly not talking about your happy village animals. The majority of people don’t live in your village though, or buy the meat of those particular animals. Most people buy from supermarkets. And some of those people thought that Red Tractor could guarantee high welfare standards, but clearly it can’t, as there have been several farms exposed this year which have animals that are treated with cruelty and contempt. I can’t “get over” that tbh

So they go into a slaughter house alive and come out chopped up in pieces wrapped in plastic. Do they think to themselves "Oh well, at least the person who is going to shit my body out her arse could see me from her window"

@MoiraRosesTransAtlanticDrawl

Totally agree areallthe Over 95% of pigs are caged in the UK.

That's not true. If you are going to make up statistics at least make up believable ones.

there have been several farms exposed this year

Really? Several? Links please

@MoiraRosesTransAtlanticDrawl

So they go into a slaughter house alive and come out chopped up in pieces wrapped in plastic. Do they think to themselves "Oh well, at least the person who is going to shit my body out her arse could see me from her window"

I would hope not.

Beef needs at least 21 days hanging to be edible.

I can’t “get over” that tbh

Lots of people just don’t care OP. I struggle to accept it too, but they just don’t.
Some are just ignorant of the facts, but there are lots of others who know the facts and just don’t care because they want their burgers/sausages/chicken nuggets and that is more important to them that trying to prevent the suffering of another living creature.

It’s horrible.

Thank you Bearded, it would be nice if the vegan society had properly referenced it. It however looks much like the EAT study that was published a year or so back as interesting idealized guidelines, but lacking when dug into. I mean "1 egg calorie requires 6 plant calories" which...I don't really need to explain why that's wording is off, right?

The list of things they've chosen not to include in their analysis is pretty much everything that would make it work practically. It's preliminary research findings. I hope they get the funding to go further, it looks like it could be interesting if they can broaden their analysis to be more practical, but I wouldn't use it to show that the UK can go self-sufficiently vegan and carbon neutral through reforestry and shifting agriculture. It doesn't really give enough evidence for that claim.

Exposing these bad practices is the first step towards asking questions about how things can change, surely?

Not really. It's like people who go on and on that they need to do X or stop doing Y, that doesn't make them more likely to take the next step, in fact going on about it may make them feel they've done enough. Awareness of problems does nothing to incentivise people to do better.

Knowing a few farms are horrible doesn't change much, probably no more than knowing that some countries that fly produce and other foods into the UK have a significant child and other enslaved labour issue. What does that information do exactly? Without other resources and tools to do differently, all it does is make people defensive and/or guilty. And no, not everyone will or even can go vegan well so that's not a solution - one only has to look at the recommendations for those with chronic low appetite to see the issues.

scrowy, that should be US,not UK.

While doing research for his book Pig Tales, author Barry Estabrook visited a farmer in Iowa who raised 150,000 pigs a year. What he saw at this factory farm the way 97 percent of pigs in the U.S. are raised is a far cry from Old MacDonald's.
"[The pigs] never see the light of day," he says. "They never set foot on anything but a bare, hard floor. They breathe that poisoned air 24/7."
What he saw is not only legal; it's state of the art. "This is the way pigs are raised," Estabrook says. [Find an excerpt from his book here.]

@MoiraRosesTransAtlanticDrawl

scrowy, that should be US,not UK.

While doing research for his book Pig Tales, author Barry Estabrook visited a farmer in Iowa who raised 150,000 pigs a year. What he saw at this factory farm the way 97 percent of pigs in the U.S. are raised is a far cry from Old MacDonald's.
"[The pigs] never see the light of day," he says. "They never set foot on anything but a bare, hard floor. They breathe that poisoned air 24/7."
What he saw is not only legal; it's state of the art. "This is the way pigs are raised," Estabrook says. [Find an excerpt from his book here.]

Are we blaming autocorrect for your lie now?

Why would you be referencing US farming systems on a discussion about British food standards? That's like comparing the UK's human rights laws with those in North Korea.

Not comparable. Not at all comparable.

I don't agree with mass pig production in the UK but there is plenty of good pork out there if you look for it.

Having many relatives who are stock farmers or work on farms. I certainly don't recognise this idea that all these animals are caged or that cruelty is rife. In my experience people I know who work in this industry do it because they actually enjoy working with animals and care for their welfare. They certainly don't do it for the money, it can be very hard work with long hours in all weathers. This type of life really is a vocation and not one chosen by anyone who hates animals as a rule. So I really bulk at the idea that the few instances of cruelty found are the norm. They simply are not. Our standards of welfare in the UK are very high so the one thing I would suggest if you eat meat is to eat British. Eat fewer pre-prepared dishes which are often shipped in from abroad and look at local suppliers who are selling on line at the moment. There are many of them all over the UK. Many butchery companies are selling direct to the public now when before they had restaurants and pubs to supply.

Covid may, with luck, change many things for the better. Apparently a lot of people have discovered that preparing food themselves is a) possible b) healthier c) cheaper . Those who wish to eat meat can home mince and cook the offcuts and offal which is cheap even with organic meat. What they are eating in the minced up meat from manufacturers is worse than offcuts and offal. It can include any part.

Manufactured alternatives to meat may be worse for the planet and the consumer. Palm oil and soya are problematic. So, in fàct, is anything produced by industrial farming methods. Chemicals are a bad idea, so is ripping the soil surface, so is large scale mono-cropping without trees and hedges or havens for the wildlife eco-balance which would shelter the birds to eat the bugs ànd the hedgehogs to eat the slugs. No-dig organic eco-farming turns out to be more productive, as well as being resistant to the soil erosion and drought which threatens us all.

Ack now I see where I missed the link. I'll blame the setting I have on my computer to improve contrast for readability made it look the same as the rest of the text. The rest of what I said still holds, but they did linked the research findings even if it is an awful yellow-on-white that my computer tried to save me from.

I meant to put US instead of UK. But an animal in any continent has the capacity to suffer. Grass fed/Caged/ Organic or barned. It may be legal but is it ethical?

Maybe not...seemingly you’re not on your own

dont bet on that
I literally buy what looks good and is priced within budget
I dont care where its come from, never looked
Feel no guilt eating meat and have no desire to start nit picking the origins of my food

Yeah. RSPCA inspected is a joke. They tell them when they're coming. They arent massively evil dickheads for one day and then the next they continue.

@fatted. That's the most pathetic excuse ever. It only exists to be eaten, therefore who gives a shit how it's treated? Once something is born it doesn't matter why it was born, the person who engineered it's birth isn't God, just some profiteer and their profit doesn't excuse suffering.

And this links to another thread about people who work in slaughterhouses. They aren't going to be compassionate. Stop being surprised that this is where a lot of psychopaths end up getting their kicks.

I’m absolutely certain it hasn’t. My lamb and beef come from a farmer in the village. They are organic and grazed on the local meadows. The food miles are virtually zero. My chicken comes from a little further away but again I can be certain it is not factory or intensive farmed.

These poor animals. It is so easy to find excuses to eat them isn't it?

I do think there needs to be more awareness about how the meat is produced and the options available - you have to really look for information as the packaging doesn't give anything away unless it's free range. It's nice to think that all animals are treated in humane ways these days but not necessarily. And there are dicks like the poster on here who don't care. I'm not a vegetarian but I like to know that the meat I buy has come from well treated animals, and we do happily eat vegetable based meals too. I don't get the argument that some people can't afford ethical meat though as the options of substituting some of the meat meals with eg pulses is much cheaper than supermarket meat! I know people who are really short of cash and yet eat meat at every meal - it's not especially healthy and certainly not cheaper.