Have you and your partner/spouse both managed to have successful careers whilst raising children, or has one career suffered?

[Dr1ppin]

I keep reading that you ‘can’t have it all’ and something has to give. My husband is currently the breadwinner and works long hours but I want to start focusing on my career now (he has never stopped me and has only ever encouraged me). I just wondered how realistic it is of me to expect to be able to focus on my career whilst raising children especially if my husband works long hours? Our children are 18 months and newborn. Is it going to be one or the other for me?

@2kool4skool to me having it all has to mean having it ALL surely, I couldn't be happy without me time (or a career, or family!) to me, being able to switch off the laptop at 5pm (after a rewarding and well paid day) is the centre point of having it all.

@notheragain4 I agree with you, but if you dial back the work you won’t achieve as much career-wise. I’m at the career stage now where I can start looking to do less and delegate more. So hopefully I can achieve what you describe! However that’s only possible after 20 years of the kind of long days and heavy schedule most people would run a mile at.

We've both had successful careers but they have both also suffered! We both compromised. I reduced my hours and DH took a job that allowed him to work from home on most of the days when I was working. We have both reached senior positions in our respective professions. I'm the higher earner but I am one of thousands of people in the same kind of role across the country. DH is recognised as a national expert in his field but its a profession that is less well paid than mine generally, so he earns less than me, though I would say he is in a more senior role. We could both have done "better" at work if the other had given up their career, but neither of us wanted that. We have shared the care of our children fairly equally and accepted that that would limit our career progression to some degree. Its worked for our family and neither of us regrets it.

I started learning to code when my youngest was at nursery and started work as a software developer the month she started school.

Waiting until they were in school helped, as I had time to focus. Once they're both in school it's a lot easier.

We have no family support and I have chronic health issues through being autoimmune, so no, I haven’t had it all. I’ve given the energy and tenacity I do have to being a present parent/wife/daughter/friend and do what I can, when I can, in terms of freelance work.

DH, despite his position, is a hands-on dad, but still, pre-Covid, he was the one with the commute, the demanding clients and the “big job”. He earns way into seven figures, likes his job, and we have a great relationship, so despite some health challenges and living thousands of miles from family, I still feel very fortunate.

@notheragain4 - there are many, many jobs (careers?) that mean you can't just switch off at 5pm, whether or not you have dc. Not being able to do that doesn't mean you don't have a good work life balance, or a good balance of being a parent and working outside the home. Lots of people get great satisfaction from those jobs - completing a project or sealing a deal or solving a problem or helping a child learn or whatever - those are the things that make that career satisfying and worth while.

I’m a single mother with very little (almost no) support from the dad. I’m in a reasonably high paying job that is interesting and flexible and respected in my sector. Do I have it all? I don’t know but what I have is worth the juggling and balancing. My daughter seems well rounded. I rely on paid care before and after school, or used to. My family live a couple of hours away so the only support i have is friends. I mean it’s doable, but it’s exhausting. I love my work, and I love that I am in the position to provide for my child especially when the dad doesn’t. I don’t know what having it all means, am sure there are Aspects of my life lacking but life is all peaks and troughs anyway.

I don't think we can have it all without half killing yourself unless you have a decent flexible employer and a supportive spouse.
Something or someone loses out when they're little usually DM.
Personally I think it's worth persevering for a good job nursery is great for a DC development or a home childminder who'll take them even with a snotty nose.

I think it depends on how many children you have and what career. Four children and jobs with loads of travel will be hard!

I've been a single parent and I think that's actually helped in a way. (Hear me out!)

Employers have known that I can't get to work early or leave late, and that's been non-negotiable. But I work hard when I'm there, I'm ruthlessly organised at work and I get shit done. I used to spend my evenings studying for my professional exams when my son was in bed. I've done a law degree part time as well, again, studying in the evenings whilst working FT.

This would have been twice as hard with two children, and probably with another adult to worry about too. If I wanted toast for dinner to save on time, that was fine. I didn't have to make conversation with a partner in the evenings or do double the washing or clean up anyone else's mess.

Yes, there were times, particularly in the first year of nursery, when I thought I would crack from the stress and all the sick days and I think every single one of my 25 days' leave were used to cover his illness rather than anything fun.

But now, years on, I'm doing well professionally and I think I do have it all. I'm strict about overtime, I don't stay late for the sake of being seen, but I'm damn good at my job and I'm paid very well. I also like to think I'm a good Mum most of the time!

My career has suffered but its meant I've had the ability to help DH make his career reach new heights that he wouldn't have been able to reach otherwise.

He has had the ability to put all into his career and be supported to do that which I think is rare

This thread is so interesting. I am struggling with the same dilemma. We have three DCs - a newborn, 6 year old and 4 year old - and I am currently on maternity leave, wondering how to handle things when I’m due to go back to work in a year’s time. I love my job - interesting role, creative company, fabulous colleagues - but I am beginning to question whether the stress is worth it and if this really constitutes ‘having it all’! I work 4 days a week officially but that often spills over into working a half day on Fridays as well - I work late / check emails in the evening after the children’s bedtime - I have an hour long commute (pre Covid) and was always racing into work/racing back. Basically everything felt like it was on the clock. As others have said, having a brilliant and reliable nanny (who works after school hours, from 3-6.30pm) has been crucial to keeping things on track, as well as a weekly cleaner and someone who comes to look after the garden every couple of months. There’s a massive amount to do and the mental load (birthdays, holidays, meal planning, arrangements for seeing family and friends, organising cleaner/gardener/house maintenance) largely falls to me. In part because I enjoy doing it but there isn’t enough time in the day alongside a full time job.
My income is low in comparison to DH and we are extremely lucky in that we could easily cope on his salary - my anxiety is about losing my identity/motivation if I give up work completely. Hoping that there’s more capacity to WFH post Covid which will help ease the pressure a bit. At some point I think you need to acknowledge that just working harder or faster isn’t going to solve the underlying issue of having too much to do. It’s so tricky. I really don’t want to give up on my job though, I’ve done a lot to get to this point!
Will continue reading other people’s replies with interest...

He has had the ability to put all into his career and be supported to do that which I think is rare

Seriously ? It’s really not at all rare! In fact it’s very, very common for a man to be supported by a woman so he can put his all into his career. Less so the other way around though...

To add to the lists of what is needed to make it work:

• straightforward children.

I expected to be able to manage two demanding careers and two children. What put paid to that was DC1 turning out to have a mild disability which means she requires much more parental input than the average child. I haven’t worked since she was 4.

he has never stopped me and has only ever encouraged me

Yeah, my DH has only ever encouraged me too. Except, he would never compromise his career prospects so as to take on more of the domestic load. Would yours OP? If not, he’s not as supportive as all that is he.

I don't think you can have it all. DH and I both work FG. I switch from feeling like a slightly inadequate employee to a crap mum. The lockdown and taught me I didn't really spend enough time with DC who are 6 and 4 and I feel pretty shit about it. And I am behind in my career aspirations already. The mental burden and juggling everything does take its toll. Every year I reach a breaking point and I switch off for a week or so. IMO no you can't have it all.

If your going to go back into the workforce spread the wealth by employing a cleaner one that enjoys ironing too.

@Rumbletumbleinmytummy

My career has suffered but its meant I've had the ability to help DH make his career reach new heights that he wouldn't have been able to reach otherwise.

He has had the ability to put all into his career and be supported to do that which I think is rare

it is really not rare for men at all.

He would have reached those new heights without you. What he couldn't do is reach those heights and have children - you gave him that

No I dont think you can have it all. I have a job, no career, despite having always worked since DCs were wee babies. To have a career in my industry you need to put in way more than I can give e.g. socialise after hours, go extra mile. It's extremely hierarchical, not a massive company, no one above ever leaves so there is zero room upwards. Theres also the constant threat of redundancy. As I grow older, I care less and less about career.

Now both my DC are in primary school, it's a fun age (I like it more than the baby and toddler crap) and I'd actually like to be around more. Our nanny is fabulous. It would have been impossible to hold down my job without her the past 5 years.

@Bluntness100 Just over a decade ago when I (and, it turned out, most of my university friends) all decided it was time to have children that was what we all thought. It's not the 50s anymore we thought. It's not even the 80s/90s when we grew up we thought. Things have changed and our partners are all feminists and it will be fine. Yet that isn't how things turned out for us. Our partners have not stepped up. Most of us took at least a year off on maternity leave and that, all by itself is a set back professionally in a way I don't think we realised it would be. Then most found the juggling harder than expected and when partners wouldn't step up they stepped back. Others found it harder to get new jobs. Their partners had continued to work through maternity leave and were now earning more and that money was important so they prioritised that career a bit more than their own and 10 years on it's a consistent pattern across the women I went to uni with - on par with the men before kids but now all on lower salaries with less prestigious prospects.

So here we are in 2020 and still women are taking the hit professionally. We have just seen the same thing playing out with covid with women being the ones who have taken on the brunt of childcare during WFH. It's not just my and my female friends' experience and it isn't our attitude that's old fashioned. Our attitude was that we should be able to have kids and our careers not suffer but it wasn't what happened, statistics show it's still a nationwide phenomenon.

I don't think this suggests that women should stay at home. I never advise that. If anything I think it calls for an orchestrated campaign to change government incentives to push men to take on more childcare responsibility.

I'm really interested by the single mums who say it's easier in some ways if you don't have another adult at home to consider. I can sort of see that, though I can also see there is more risk of falling into poverty without a second wage coming in when you have kids.

You have to properly share child and house responsibilities. Properly, not just lip service. It has to be irrelevant what you earn, a career is more than a salary.

That's my only advice.

Well we both have FT jobs (DS was 4 when I went back FT) not 'careers' as such

DH works a bit different to me overall, me a strict 9-5.

We are not career minded people we just do our jobs and that is all we want we do not want 'career progress' (nothing wrong with it we are just lazy lol!)

So if we had the energy and drive would could make a career work but we don't

You cant have it all simply means:

-The mum has a career .the other takes care of the kids.
-The dad has a carereer. The other person takes care of the kid.
-Both have a career. Kids are always at childcare/after school care etc.

There are choices. But there is always a "you can't have it all" situation..

Surely it depends on what kind og job you have. I know lots of people with decent jobs who finish at a decent time and can get off for appointments and such.

Maybe not the type of career many mumsnetters would consider good, however.

turns out that one of the DC has autism and learning severe difficulties - diagnosed at 3. So long days in nursery or wrap around childcare were impossible and it was the end of my professional career. Impossible to have it all at least of SN are involved.

Yeah, my DH has only ever encouraged me too. Except, he would never compromise his career prospects so as to take on more of the domestic load. Would yours OP? If not, he’s not as supportive as all that is he.

I agree that this is often the big issue. I see a lot on here (including on this thread), statements like "my DH's career is not flexible, he works away so I have to..." Basically a subconscious assumption that men can't be expected to compromise their careers in any way, it's just about whether their wife can work around it. Women in inflexible careers make changes when they have children.

We do manage to have serious careers but it has involved some compromise from both of us: we both have to turn down opportunities from time to time because it doesn't work around the kids and sometimes we have to let work down because the kids are ill, etc. It works because we both have fairly understanding employers (including the ability to be four days a week), earn enough to outsource (e.g. we have started paying for someone to put flat pack together), and because my DH doesn't view it as my job to work around him.

Societal expectations are strong though - my bosses have always understood that I am not available on my day off with the kids except in real emergencies but my husband gets called on his day with the kids regularly and his boss, at the time of agreeing to it, said something like "of course, sometimes you'll end up coming in" which given that a 4 year old and a 1 year old can't look after themselves is an odd assumption...

Even though on the face of it, we are living the equal parenting dream - both 4 days a week, did shared parental leave etc - I do find that I have to be careful to stand my ground with my husband, if I am too nice "oh, I'll do this sick day with the kids as I am less busy at work", he will take as much as he can get and not think to reciprocate - so fairly strict turn taking works better. I think it's that, as enlightened as he is, deep down most men do feel a bit entitled