Have you and your partner/spouse both managed to have successful careers whilst raising children, or has one career suffered?

[Dr1ppin]

I keep reading that you ‘can’t have it all’ and something has to give. My husband is currently the breadwinner and works long hours but I want to start focusing on my career now (he has never stopped me and has only ever encouraged me). I just wondered how realistic it is of me to expect to be able to focus on my career whilst raising children especially if my husband works long hours? Our children are 18 months and newborn. Is it going to be one or the other for me?

@Bluntness100

Piata, ok dual jobs then 🤷‍♀️ The point remains in the vast majority of households both parents work and the same for single parents, they also work,

Working and having children is not something unusual or impossible.

Jobs or careers millions of parents manage it.

There is potentially quite a vast distinction between the two though! A couple both doing a few hours a week around the kids in casual roles is a different universe from the sort of setup OP is asking about. I'm not sure she isn't working herself actually, from the wording, though I assume currently on ML.

@Bluntness100

Piata, ok dual jobs then 🤷‍♀️ The point remains in the vast majority of households both parents work and the same for single parents, they also work,

Working and having children is not something unusual or impossible.

Jobs or careers millions of parents manage it.

Maybe so but depends on what industry you are looking at. I am one of 2 female partners in my group out of 20 partners - pretty much without exception, my male partners have wives who don't work and take care of the children, their homes etc. They can focus on the job without all the background noise (for want of a better description). Many of the female associates leave after they've had children as it is so difficult to juggle everything.

I was having a conversation with one of my male partners about a month after lockdown started (we needed to do a call and I couldn't do it until DC were in bed and I'd done DH's dinner - I didn't mind doing that as he was working all hours in ITU looking after the sickest COVID patients) and I commented I felt like a 1950s housewife. He was enthusiastically agreeing that his wife had said the same and went into a long description of all the things she was having to do re: shopping, cooking etc.

I said, right, and now try to imagine doing the day job on top of all of that. He didn't reply...

I’m impressed with those saying they’ve managed it without paid help or lots of family support.

I think it depends very much on the job type.

I have gone down to “part time” and still found I had to work 50-60 hours per week ( not constantly, but regularly).

I’m seriously considering handing in my notice now as lockdown and homeschooling has nearly finished me off.

No family support, not particularly high earners (~90k total income), given level of education and demanding nature of the jobs.

I’m curious those who’ve managed it what sort of hours they work?

Jobs or careers millions of parents manage it.

I don't think anyone is saying it's impossible to have a career and kids, but the OP asked if careers suffer, and in the majority of cases, if you have children the mother's career is likely to. A few parents may be able to avoid it. But most dual career couples with children will have taken a hit along the way and for the vast majority of those, it will predominantly be the mother who does worse career wise.

@everythingthelighttouches

I’m impressed with those saying they’ve managed it without paid help or lots of family support.

I think it depends very much on the job type.

I have gone down to “part time” and still found I had to work 50-60 hours per week ( not constantly, but regularly).

I’m seriously considering handing in my notice now as lockdown and homeschooling has nearly finished me off.

No family support, not particularly high earners (~90k total income), given level of education and demanding nature of the jobs.

I’m curious those who’ve managed it what sort of hours they work?

This is probably slightly outing but when I came back from maternity leave #1 I was on a very intense deal and was getting home regularly at 2am/3am - DH and I had a rota as to who was up in the night with DC1 (they were a terrible sleeper) and I would often get home and have baby handed to me whilst DH tried to get some sleep. Which was fair enough but my god I don't know how I survived on so little sleep - would have to be up again by 7/7.30 and take DC1 to nursery before getting train to London to do it all over again.

To be honest lockdown has made me reassess things and I am quite keen to find something nearer to home and less time intensive.

We are having it all, sort of. I'm the breadwinner and very senior. DP totally passionate about his career although not v senior. Only one DC. We both do 4 day weeks, we have some family support, we have a nanny. We have supportive employers and we share the load (although I do more of everything). It wasn't an option for either of us to step off our career tracks, and we both love our jobs although DP more than me. But I earn significantly more so needed to keep going on and up as we wanted to have a child and having a child and career takes money. It is hard though and I take regular proper holidays from work as I do get burned out. No holiday from DC though, ever.

Boom boom. It’s not the 1950s any more. I work in a Corp environment, as clearly do all my colleagues and their careers didn’t suffer, neither did my female friends, there is no reason now a woman’s career should suffer.

Honestly this old fashioned attitude is so annoying.

DH and I are also doing this. Their are compromises and on balance I am not sure if it's worth it. Our household income is around 400k, but we both work 12 hour plus days, plus holidays and a few hours each weekend. We have three DC and we work flexibly so that we can spend extra time in the week with them.

1. The financial benefits are sucked away largely by childcare costs - we have a nanny, plus nursery and school costs. This means my take home pay is in effect 2-3 grades lower.

1. It's exhausting - I average about 5 hours sleep, and there is no let up or space for me or my husband to have our time. I am writing this whilst trying to get the toddler down. I hope it will get better as this isn't healthy.

1. None of our peers at work have this experience. Without exception my boss and leadership team all have stay at home spouses. I often want to scream that yes I've delivered a fuckinh awesome piece of work but I have done so on fuck all sleep, whilst ensuring that everything in the house keeps running.

I would say that in my experience it's often tougher on women. My friend will say that DH is one of the most involved when it comes to childcare, but the entire burden of running the house (food in the fridge, birthdays, play dates, vaccines, school) falls to me and I am constantly and finally jealous that he lives a life knowing I will get this done.

So why do I do this ? Out of my cohort of school, uni and professional friends, two work full time in roles appropriate to their qualifications and one of them (my most senior successful friend) is about to quit.

I think my reasons for still being in this situation are twofold. I genuinely love my family time and kids and I also genuinely love my job. I have a fairly high tolerance for stress.

Second, I guess I am trapped. I didn't understand how all consuming being a parent is, and the constant logistics of running a house for a family compared to your life as a couple. We also hadn't planned on private school but eldest has SEN. My role shouldn't be as demanding as it is, and I would move but it's harder to find senior jobs at my level and I don't at this point have the energy or risk appetite to start at another firm.

My life plan is still pretty much my teenage one - win the lottery !

Also should say, if DC had sen I don't know what we would do as DP adores job but I pay the bills -not sure who would step down or how really. But so far, DC seems to be handling life fairly easily.

I don’t think I have seen a situation where both parents work long hours and it hasn’t had an effect on the kids in some way. I think one parent has to step back at least for the first few years so part time or normal full- time hours ( so no over time!). I have known kids getting up at 5 in the morning to say goodbye to parents as they know they won’t see them for the whole day. Maybe if parents can work a few days at home a weekas seems to be the case now then it may get easier . It is rubbish - I wish it was easier for parents to take time out and then go back yo careers .

My career hasn't suffered, I am very successful. But I am the exception, not the rule - very few women are partners in my industry and the senior female associates drop like flies. That's a fact. I'm not special (just stubborn) and have been helped by the fact that I can plan around DH's rota and, as a partner, I have more control over my diary.

I've been doing this for over 20 years and am so disappointed that there hasn't been much change since I started. There are so many initiatives etc but nothing has really helped, I think we need proper societal change where it is seen as the norm for men to more equally share the family caring role.

My career suffered and continues to do so. However this is mainly because me and dh were soooo tired trying to both hold down a career. We probably could have stuck it out but I didn't want to. I started to look horrendous I was so tired all the time.
I'm pt now and much much happier. Starting to phone up courses now to see if I can start a masters or MBA though as feel like at least won't look like I've completely shelved the career while I'm 'off'. I hope to go back to it as dc get older though.
I don't regret leaving. I look younger now than I did 5 years ago when working ft and in long hours. Not saying it's all about looks I actually mean my physical health ended up suffering as a result of me trying to hold down my career. I get a lot of people seem to manager perfectly fine though. Not me at all though

@dogdaysofsummer are you me?! Sounds so similar.

It definitely depends on the career. But two very high-flying careers where both work long hours/travel/are expected to be available for high reward - I think it is very hard and requires a lot of planning and commitment. We both had similar level careers/trajectories when we were married. I continued on a relatively high-paying path and was promoted a lot but not as much as dh. I reckon at that level you can have 1.5 maybe 1.75 high flying jobs but not 2 without something giving. The people I know who did it, did the following:

Had only 1 or 2 children
Hired a ton of help - nanny/cleaner/gardener etc.
Sacrificed ordinary down time (being there after school/driving them to school yourself) for really nice holidays together etc.

I honestly haven't seen any of these children have any ill-effects from this now they are grown. In fact, the girls I grew up with who had a mother at home and a high flying father like a hospital consultant etc had far more issues imo.

We managed the 1.75 careers and 3 children by completely minimising any hobbies/activities away from our chldren for the first few years. Making friends with families in similar situations and helping each other out. I can name all the women over 20 years - some SAHM some full-time working - who I backed up for emergencies/pick ups etc and they did the same for me.

Things are changing but I would often sit at a meeting at work where everyone was very senior. All married. All the men had children. None of the women did.

I think it depends on your definition of having it all. And from whose viewpoint.

We’ve got 4 kids Between us and I’ve swapped a career in the city for a job in education. It’s about 1/5 of the pay but it means I’m there to pick them up after school and take care of them in the School holidays. If the kids are sick my DH wfh and he also wfh when there are things like school plays and sports days. So there is always one parent around for them. We’ve got no relatives on hand to help us. So no grandparents to fill in when we can’t.

I didn’t feel very loved or wanted as a child so this has massively swayed my thinking in this. Everyone’s circumstances are different. I have been a sahm and I found it very boring and I felt I’d lost my identity. This job I have now keeps me sane, and I get to keep the CV active so when the kids finally fledge I can hopefully push on into something more challenging/pays more.

I'm surprised at the income levels of many on this thread, but that's by the by.

I am working nearly full time, in what is full time hours for most jobs (ie >40h per week).

The key is good childcare.

Despite being a professional (a doctor) I can't afford ideal childcare, so have had to cobble together a less than ideal Hodge podge of childcare, and this has been less than ideal, effected work, and very stressful. My take home is way less than a nanny would cost.

For most people, I would recommend paying for the best childcare you can afford (and given the high incomes of many on this thread, it is affordable to many here)

I find it interesting the amount of posts that talk about equal partnerships and someone having to pick up the slack. I’ve done it all alone with 3 kids, plus working all through lockdown from home with them.

I don’t think I’m some superwoman though I’d love to!! What I do think is that it depends clearly on the employer. I’m now very senior level (director) which started from a PT role when DD2 was born I’ve had 4 promotions. They’ve been flexible with my commitments and working patterns to get me there, because they value what I can bring to their organisation. They value me enough to accept sometimes I will say no to a meeting because the nativity comes first and there is no one else to go. Or to understand I’m flying back on “x” date not “y” because that international trip clashes with being too long away from them. I won’t leave them more than 1 night a week.

This tells me it’s possible to be extremely successful and fulfilled, and to not let your DC miss their parent but employers need to get better at recognising the value women bring to their outputs, and that a settled home life enhances not detracts from that.

So all kudos to my employers for doing just that, in an industry typically seen as a male remit!

Boom boom. It’s not the 1950s any more. I work in a Corp environment, as clearly do all my colleagues and their careers didn’t suffer, neither did my female friends, there is no reason now a woman’s career should suffer.

So why do we have a gender pay gap, so few women earning 100k plus & so few women in senior positions?

It is a challenge.
I gave up working completely.
Never did resume my career. But life has taken some interesting turns and I am happy.

dogdays very interesting to read your comments, I really recognise what you wrote.

Our DS has SEN (has one-to-one at school) and we tried to get him into private school but they said they couldn’t provide the support. Can I ask, did you have to pay extra on top of fees for any additional support for your dc?

I think it depends on your age as well. If I'd had DS at 24 instead of 34 I would have been on a temp contract earning 14k, with no savings, as we only graduated at 23. Instead we bought a house at 24, which was cheaper than renting and allowed us to build up savings so I could take a full year maternity leave and now work part-time.

Having it all is a myth. My career took a big hit after my second maternity leave. DH got a massive promotion and pay rise to match. He was out of the house 7.30-7.30 every day - sometimes longer - so all pick ups and drop offs, dinner, baths, bedtime fell to me every day. In the end something had to give and since DH was by now earning twice what I was earning, it made sense for it to be my career.

The only couples I know who have managed to make it work have either had free childcare on tap in the form of parents or other family members living close by, or have been independently wealthy enough to afford live in nannies to cover all the 6pm meetings that have over run, etc. But, the trade off is that neither parent saw their children very much during the week. Maybe they’d be back in time to read a bedtime story and see them for 20 mins before bed. Personally, I would hate that. But I don’t judge anyone for making a different choice.

However, IMO and IME it is impossible to keep both careers going at full speed if you don’t have unlimited free childcare or very expensive dedicated help.

Four years on and I’m now retraining in a completely different field so that I can work from home around the kids. It’s actually worked out much better for our family in the long run and I’ve loved the time I’ve been able to spend with the kids - honestly I’m so grateful for it. But the anguish of losing my career at the time was real and took a while to get over.

Working and having children is not something unusual or impossible.

Of course it's not but the OP is about both parents having successful careers which I think is a little different.

I won’t leave them more than 1 night a week.

This is the kind of thing people mean by someone picking up the slack. Someone looks after them for that one night, I assume, so that person is enabling you to do your particular job.