To say that if you are quite covid risk adverse there are some places it’s best not to go

[Scentsandsensible]

Inspired by a few threads and personal experience.

I’m not saying stay at home and be isolated BUT... if you’re someone who is going to have a panic attack if someone gets within a metre it’s probably best to avoid

• busy shopping centres
• theme parks
• pubs

-restaurants

• busy hotels

I do get that this may sound unfair - but it’s the reality. If you feel vulnerable these probably aren’t the best places to go.

A few tings strike me.

One is that some events and places just don't easily adapt to SD. We are wanting to reopen as much as possible so things don't simply go under. Even as it is, I think it is very quickly going to become clear that many places cannot make enough money while practicing SD, I expect many pubs to go under, music venues will not be able to manage, theatres. If people want these places to stay and function we will have little option but to relax social distancing.

I also think that the business of very vulnerable people is a bit of a red herring. That is not the same as risk averse. People who are immunocompromised, for example, are at higher risk going into places like pubs even without covid and often choose not to, for just that reason. I would never say they shouldn't, people can make their own choices about what is important to them. But it's disingenuous to pretend that such people were wandering into pubs and concerts with no concerns before.

I also think that people will not tend to obey rules where they don't seem to make sense. Someone upthread mentioned people in a pub pulling chairs over to join another group as being against SD. But if these same people had met outside and come to sit together they would be considered part of the same group. There is an arbitrary element people do not respond well to with regard to rules.

I think people should behave considerately towards each other.

You can go in a shop or whatever but behave respectfully and sensitively be aware of your surroundings i.e. if someone is where you want to be patient, move to one side, say a polite excuse me etc.

Teen DD was queueing up in the street outside an ice cream shop for us both a few weeks ago. I was waiting in the car, she had her mask on, observed social distancing by respecting the people in front of her, then a teenage couple came behind her who were just about sitting on her shoulder (without masks kissing and cuddling no masks everyone else in the queue had masks on), she tried to move slightly forwards still respecting the people in front of her and slightly to one side but when she moved they moved etc.

@ Scentsandsensible Not taking into account what ither customers might do is the equivalent of thinking “a beach is a nice open space on this sunny day” and not considering that 200 other people might think the same.

Your analogy doesn’t work. Please read my post, I checked in advance the rigorous measures the pub had in place to ensure SD with other customers. No way comparable to a free for all on a beach.

I believed the pub was guarding against accidental lapses of SD. What I did not anticipate was acute and deliberate selfishness, squeezing round screens and brushing against tables to avoid walking an extra 2 meters to the toilet.

Totally agree OP - went on holiday in the UK with friends who were super paranoid all week about social distancing. Obviously didn't want to be there or do anything so l did keep wondering why bother going away? Just stay at home and save your money.

@CaptainMonkey

I'm not hankering after Sweden's death toll tbh.

Long term it may be the same, we don't know.

Especially if their population is able to find a good compromise that they can manage long term. Whereas those of us in places that have tried to force unsustainable behaviours will simply find people stop following them.

There is no point pretending that you can simply wish away the way that people behave on a large scale. You have to work with the limits of behaviour to try and shape better habits long term.

@Bagatelle1

@ Scentsandsensible Not taking into account what ither customers might do is the equivalent of thinking “a beach is a nice open space on this sunny day” and not considering that 200 other people might think the same.

Your analogy doesn’t work. Please read my post, I checked in advance the rigorous measures the pub had in place to ensure SD with other customers. No way comparable to a free for all on a beach.

I believed the pub was guarding against accidental lapses of SD. What I did not anticipate was acute and deliberate selfishness, squeezing round screens and brushing against tables to avoid walking an extra 2 meters to the toilet.

This is the sort of thing that worries me with pubs. I don't feel like I want to go in one at the moment.

What about if everyone else who can't follow social distancing (that is in place for everyone in order to reduce the spread, not just for vunerable people to follow) just stays at home until they can learn what 1m-2m is !
All this talk of vunerable people just staying at home letting us 'normal' people carry on ....they don't seem to realise that vunerable people had normal day to day lives before covid as well and also that they themselves are potentially only ever one car accident away from being one of these 'vunerable' people that they want to keep locked up at home so they can go about their lives and stand in everyone elses space !

Sorry op, I don’t agree. I think for those that can, it’s not that hard to just stay a bit away from someone in a queue.
I know masks and distancing for some are difficult. But if the majority can we should. I don’t know what circumstances the person in front has so I should treat them with a bit of respect and back off.

I don’t want to kill their granny!!

I find supermarkets really really stressful now.
I just wish people would follow the rules and just keep back a bit.
I get some can’t and that’s ok, but it’s dickheads risking it for everyone.
These places should be better at managing it as it will end up with them being forced to shut.
But I get it’s hard for staff to manage.

I agree OP to some extent. I'm not the most ( or least) risk averse, probably somewhere in the middle, but am avoiding drinking in pubs, and other places that take a phone number, as im worried about having to let my work down by needing to self isolate if someone in the pub tests positive.

To those who seem to misunderstand my post. I’m not saying anyone should stay home. I’m saying that certain places are higher risk and if you’re someone who is either at a high risk - or is particularly worried - these high risk places are best avoided.

I’ve said it about twenty times but will say it again

• I always wear a mask
• I don’t stand close to people and observe social distancing
• I’m avoiding most of the places mentioned on my list

This isn’t about whether people should wear masks, distance etc. It’s about people who are very uncomfortable with risk going to oddly risky places (which aren’t essential).

It’s not about hospitals, supermarkets, public transport.

Thankfully it seems that about 80% of people who have read the title do understand it.

I don't really understand why you're concerned with what these 'nervous' people should do, OP. Why does it bother you what they do? I can't fathom why, if you're going to be concerned about what people should do, you're not starting a thread to say that people 'should' follow the SD rules. If you're not making an issue out of that, why draw up best practice for people who should be able to choose what they do? Why are you going after them, exactly?

Depends
Risk averse because of anxiety you should push yourself to try to improve your anxiety response

Averse because you are shielding then yes avoid places that are risky

Moaning at others who are not doing what you want them to go is waste of life energy

@gallbladderpain

What about if everyone else who can't follow social distancing (that is in place for everyone in order to reduce the spread, not just for vunerable people to follow) just stays at home until they can learn what 1m-2m is ! All this talk of vunerable people just staying at home letting us 'normal' people carry on ....they don't seem to realise that vunerable people had normal day to day lives before covid as well and also that they themselves are potentially only ever one car accident away from being one of these 'vunerable' people that they want to keep locked up at home so they can go about their lives and stand in everyone elses space !

Thank you.

That proposed solution doesn't get any less unrealistic with repetition.

@BelleSausage - i think its a little unfair to say this has shown how selfish people are, we are over 5 months into restrictions we were told would be 3-4 weeks. Huge sections of the population have damaged their careers, businesses, education, given up on things they find fun, stopped seeing friends and family - all to protect the most vulnerable people.

It was always selfish and unfair to expect those changes to be forever.

Some businesses/locations just can't operate within social distancing rules well. There comes a point when we do have to say either we shut them down forever, or those are places you accept social distancing isn't being properly done and decide if you personally want to go there based on that. (Eg. We've not been to the beach at all this year, even though its not a long drive to a few nice seaside resorts for us and normally would go a few times over the holidays.)

@Goosefoot

A few tings strike me.

One is that some events and places just don't easily adapt to SD. We are wanting to reopen as much as possible so things don't simply go under. Even as it is, I think it is very quickly going to become clear that many places cannot make enough money while practicing SD, I expect many pubs to go under, music venues will not be able to manage, theatres. If people want these places to stay and function we will have little option but to relax social distancing.

I also think that the business of very vulnerable people is a bit of a red herring. That is not the same as risk averse. People who are immunocompromised, for example, are at higher risk going into places like pubs even without covid and often choose not to, for just that reason. I would never say they shouldn't, people can make their own choices about what is important to them. But it's disingenuous to pretend that such people were wandering into pubs and concerts with no concerns before.

I also think that people will not tend to obey rules where they don't seem to make sense. Someone upthread mentioned people in a pub pulling chairs over to join another group as being against SD. But if these same people had met outside and come to sit together they would be considered part of the same group. There is an arbitrary element people do not respond well to with regard to rules.

I certainly had no concerns going to pubs or concerts pre Covid, nor did anyone I know in my position (transplant patient)

A lot of the comments on this thread remind me of the Durdle Door beach lady. “I went to a theme park and couldn’t believe that a load of selfish people had gone there too”.

@DisgruntledGuineaPig

So losing your job makes it impossible for a person to maintain social distancing?

I think not.

I get it. I really do. I too am at the very bottom mentally and am trying to struggle upwards.

That doesn’t excuse selfish bad behaviour. It just doesn’t.

Unfortunately, it has become apparent that the number of people who give not a fuck about anyone else or the greater good is fairly enormous. Which is probably why we have one of the highest death tolls per capita in the world. British people have a stupid Internet alright Jack’ mentality.

I’ve actually never been more ashamed of my country.

Sorry, that should be ‘I’m alright Jack’

It was always selfish and unfair to expect those changes to be forever.

Above your paygrade. Follow the rules and vote differently if you don't like them.

I can see both sides. I am very much of the idea we need to live with this virus now. But I can see why a small sector is scared. Although the very vulnerable I know seems more blase - as if they want to live properly.

I try to give elderly people a really wide berth in case they are nervous. Sad really

Well dh had not left the house for 100 days as shielding and we are now doing stuff. We are not anxious or prone to panic attacks thank you but would just expect some common courtesy and even a nod to social distancing. Prople get so close they actually touch. DH is a slow walker and I have seen people literally barge past him. Tables is some chain restaurants too close. Fridays the exception.
However we need to get out now whilst we can so just have to take the slight risk as he deserves to live too. Plus the kids need to get back to school so we will have to chance it.

Yeah, I agree with you. And I think a lot of people who are risk-averse for whatever reason are doing just that.

The risk of catching it because someone passes within a metre of you in the street or a shop is vanishingly small, assuming they don’t cough or sneeze or spit at you.

Of course everyone should be social distancing, but it is difficult for people to remain hyper-aware of the distance they are keeping from others at all times, particularly indoors and particularly if everyone is moving around. And we all have to be tolerant and considerate - social distancing involves two people!

I have also noticed that the people who get very self-righteous about social distancing are also often people who tend to behave in an incredibly inconsiderate way that forces others to come near them when they otherwise wouldn’t need to.

For example, I was queuing for a supermarket a few weeks ago. Three of us were allowed to go in - me, the woman ahead of me and the woman behind me. The woman ahead of us walked in and promptly stopped right after the entrance, in the middle of the aisle to start rummaging through the handbag. The woman behind and I both said excuse me, but she didn’t hear - so we both quickly scooted past her, about a metre away from her. She yelled ‘social distancing!’ at us. I said we couldn’t all go around the shop at her pace. And if she’d stepped to the side there would have been plenty of space for us to get round her.

If, despite knowing and understanding the risks, you are going to have a panic attack if someone accidentally steps within a metre radius of you, it’s best to avoid certain places and also best to be as conscious of your behaviour as possible - don’t stand in the middle of supermarket aisles, for example.

@gallbladderpain

What about if everyone else who can't follow social distancing (that is in place for everyone in order to reduce the spread, not just for vunerable people to follow) just stays at home until they can learn what 1m-2m is ! All this talk of vunerable people just staying at home letting us 'normal' people carry on ....they don't seem to realise that vunerable people had normal day to day lives before covid as well and also that they themselves are potentially only ever one car accident away from being one of these 'vunerable' people that they want to keep locked up at home so they can go about their lives and stand in everyone elses space !

Fully agree.

There are millions of vulnerable adults who are integral to society - including emergency services workers, teachers, carers, all manner of other workers including councils, shops, distribution, manufacturing, leisure, public transport workers, etc. Society would collapse if all the vulnerable stayed locked behind closed doors.

How bloody hard is it just to ask people to maintain social distancing, wash their hands, avoid hugely crowded places, etc. It's not sodding rocket science.

The millions of vulnerable who are working to keep the country moving are entitled to go out shopping or engage in low risk leisure activities without some entitled/arrogant prick breaching the guidance by being so stupid as to forget to keep a couple of metres away when they easily can or being so lazy not to wash their hands.

@Monkeynuts18 *And we all have to be tolerant and considerate"

Yet you couldn't wait a few seconds and just had to barge past that woman ignoring social distancing?? Priceless!