School Uniforms and CMS

[Eazypeazy]

Dear all,

I get monthly child maintenance from the children's father. I have asked that he pays for half the childrens new school uniform but he is refusing. I have said that the CM does not cover the costs of the uniform but be thinks otherwise.

Am i being unreasonable in requesting this?

I think nrps are assumed to spend money on them on stuff to cover the time they are with the nrp. Yes kids may bring their stuff back and forth but it’s expected the nrp buys some things.

There are so many threads on here that say that of the NRP has 50% of the nights, they don't pay maintenance. That's not true. Check on the CMS calculator at gov.co.uk.

If you are NRP then the maintenance payment is reduced to 50% of the full amount of the children have 50% of nights with you. It oy goes to zero with fully shared care, which means that both parents are taking a full and equal responsibility for all aspects of their children's upbringing. Fully shared care is very unusual.

Either way, the NRP should pay for the children's needs when at their house, including clothes like uniform.

@thebusdriver in my case I have stuff at mine (RP) and stuff at NRP (which I bought from the DC initially) because my ex has no respect for property and things get lost or broken there, and often never returned.

Rather than an ongoing argument, I simply bought one full set of stuff for his, then said that nothing except the DC and special possessions like teddies would travel between houses. It's now very clear that if stuff is t available at NRP house, it's not my problem to solve. And stuff for the DC at my house is no longer going missing or needing replacing every few weeks.

@TheBusDriver that's assuming care is 50/50. My ex has our DS approximately 3 nights a month, the rest of the care falls to me. That's his choice because of his working hours. So all the day to day expenses fall to me - packed lunches, extra curricular activities, days out. I am the one who has to organise all school holiday childcare. I do all the school uniform shopping. That's why my ex gives me money. He doesn't ask what I spend it on and I wouldn't tell him even if he did.

My we buy what dsd needs here and contribute on top of cms for things needed at the RP.
However ' legally' he dient have to. Morally he does. However dsd announced she still fits last yrs stuff. Yet dh gave her money for uniform. But that's another story.

My ex pays maintenance and that's it. He doesn't supply for his. There was a school trip £675. He gave ds 20 euros to spend! My dh pays for my ds stuff generally along with anything anyone else needs

@JaggySplinter is there a legal definition of fully shared care....online that I could find?
My ex wants shared care but not 50/50....and I seem to 'do all the care'...buy the uniforms for both houses, haircuts, dentist etc
But he insists on putting his address (next to mine) for the kids on stuff
Your comment was interesting!

My friend is on benefits and she puts money aside each month for uniforms, she has three kids so she has to otherwise there is no way she can pay before term starts. i used to do this too when my son was young and I was a single mum - I had jards of money for everything that was going to be expensive. Christmas, birthday, uniforms, school trips. My ex didn't pay CMS and buggered off abroad.
No he doesn't have to pay more.

@sadwithkiddies - I don't think so. But you can apply through CMS for maintenance and he'd have to go to court and prove fully shared care to get out of paying. That could be very detrimental to any co parenting relationship though.

Typically, if one parent gets child benefit, organises things, does the doctors/dentists, buys the uniform, etc then they would not be in a fully shared care situation. But, of whatever parent the child is with deals with everything on their days (or does all organisation for their days, does appointments etc) then it's shared care.

My ex asked for shared care initially, but in the same letter said I'd have to do all the admin and just update him weekly about what he needed to do because it was all too much for him to stay on top of 😂

He now has our DC EOW and 6 weeks of school holidays, so very far from shared care.

@ZigZagPlant he was very clever. He got a 50:50 shared care order in how it was worded but DC actually only attended alternate weekends; plus extra in the holidays from bedtime until 9am. So he paid maintenance because he only actually had them for 6 nights a month but used the 50:50 line to manipulate over and over again. I was ordered to pack them a bag of clothes which they had to take to and from school each weekend. I also had to pack them a clean uniform on the Friday morning ready for Monday, and they brought the dirty one plus all the dirty clothes and shoes from the weekend home. All for £17 a week.

In theory a RP and NRP should have the same bills ie both for example should have a 3 bed house if they have 2 children. This would mean the majority of household running costs would be nearly the same.

That is a ridiculous theory. So because two people had a child at one point in time they should live parallel lives for forever? What if like my DH and his exW they both remarry? Should the new spouses also be bound by this and not be able to invest in the marriage or their future children?

In reality the CMS should allow the child to live a life that reflects the income of each parent. But the ex should not be expected to maintain the RP in a certain lifestyle. If people want that sort of protection they should marry so that this issue is dealt with on divorce. Child maintenance is not the right platform to act as substitute spousal.

@copernicium can you not return to court? That doesn’t sit right. Were you not also represented?

No I couldn't afford representation for a 4 year case. I would never go back. It was absolute hell. DD has chosen not to go now and DS hardly goes and he hasn't chased it. Really not worth rocking the boat, but just wanted to show how unfair the system is.

the amount of women on here that think CMS should cover 100% of costs is unreal. It's the women who don't want to pay out of their own pocket

Despite my ex being a proper dollop.. He does help out with extras. I get £350 four weekly. I usually buy all uniform and shoes. I also pay for small trips while he pays for big ones. This year my dd starts high-school so there is a huge outlay for new uniform. The ex has agreed to buy the school shoes/trainers. He does buy good quality. Unfortunately his dsd is working in a care home where a resident has tested positive for covid so they are isolating for 2 weeks. He's putting £50 in my bank so I can buy them.
He sees her normally one overnight a fortnight. With extra mid weeks when he can. He does work funny hours.
He knows I'm normally able to do most things myself so doesn't mind when I ask him for help.
We consult on most things and I am accommodating when he needs to change things about. When my eldest left for uni, he dropped the Cs by £100 pm and pays that to her so she has some support.
I know I'm lucky as I get 2x the amount I should but its taken us 9 years to get this way.. In the beginning he would withhold it if I didn't let the children (3 at the time) do what he wanted and when so I just didn't ask and eventually he realised he couldn't use it as something to control me. We get on.. Sort of for the most part 😂
I was told by my solicitor that cm is to cover the non resident parents half of child rearing costs. So whatever the father puts in the pot the mother has to match..

If you have ever actually shared care with your DC you will see where the problem lies with having no clothes or items at the NRP house - weather and sickness. So I could send them in summer clothing to him, it is cold and raining he has nothing! They puke on their clothes, he has no spare! So what are you doing as an RP? Yes planning for all this too while NRP takes them off to legoland

My ex has managed to fix his finances in such a way that the CMS made a £0 assessment for our 2 children. Just out of interest I looked how much it would cost me to kit both dc (both at secondary, but not the same one) out with everything the schools say they need.
(Both calculations were based on buying everything from the uniform shop in the smallest available size and enough for a week. So 5x tops. 2 x jumper. 2x trousers. 1 blazer. Socks. 1 full set of pe kit. Shoes and trainers were not included. Plus any extras school say they need, eg lab coat, logo bag)

DS1. £176. He would also need shoes and football boots on top of this. Possibly trainers, I never fully understood the pe footwear thing at his school. ( he changed schools just before lockdown)

DS2. £278. Then shoes, trainers and football boots. Compulsory 'locker and school bag package'.

Then stationery, shin pads and mouth guards if needed. Luckily I have realised that although DS2s school list a specific pair of trousers, in a specific shade of grey, they don't actually enforce it and m&s trousers seem to be fine. White shirts are the same from anywhere so can make a small saving there. The 'compulsory' lab coats are never worn, but most parents buy them because we are told we have to.

Of course both my dc are older and need bigger, more expensive sizes. And even 'cheap shoes are upwards of £30 when they have massive feet.

I asked their Father if he could make a contribution. His reply was "no I have 5 other children to look after". 2 of them aren't his and have left school, one is actually over 18. 2 of the younger 3 are too young for school so they don't have mountains of uniform to buy. But the CMS, and the law say he doesn't have to pay anything so he won't.

TLDR: uniform is expensive. NRPs are not expected to pay towards it. It sucks.

My dc knocked on my front door last week while with the NRP and asked for......a coat to wear!
Yep it was 32 degrees the morning before when I sent dc off....clearly NRP hasn't managed to purchase one in the last 2 years!

I dated a man for a little while who had to drive to his exes house whenever it rained as she never packed the coats (perhaps on purpose) and he didn’t buy any coats. It drove me insane 😂

don’t think many RPs spend just 12% of their income on housing, feeding, clothing, educating and entertaining their child but that is all a non resident parent pays. Doesn’t seem equitable to me.

In fairness the NRP doesn't just spend the CMS amount on the kids if they have access. They still have to provide all those things too, just as the RP does, albeit on a lower pro rata basis if they have them less often. You don't get a discount on the rent just because the kids bedrooms are only used EOW.

I think if the RP wants to share the costs 50:50 then the NRP should be offered the chance to have the kids on a 50:50 basis (good reasons not to allow this aside), assuming the NRP would want that.

My DP had to take his exW to court even just to get the EOW access he has. He wanted 50:50 but she was adamant he wasn't going to get this, and hired a SHL to make sure he didn't. Frankly in his case I think if she refuses to share the good bits of parenting then she can suck up the crap bits and the higher costs as a result. I wouldn't say this to him, obviously he can give her as much as he likes but I'm not sure I could be the bigger person if I was in his shoes.

Clearly this has nothing to do with your situation OP, but I can see why some NRPs would resent paying more than they had to if they never got any time with the kids on the RPs say so.

@Menora

I dated a man for a little while who had to drive to his exes house whenever it rained as she never packed the coats (perhaps on purpose) and he didn’t buy any coats. It drove me insane 😂

Omg whyyyyyyy. Just buy the sodding coats!