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AIBU?

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Original poster

School Uniforms and CMS

170 replies

Eazypeazy · 25/08/2020 21:08

Dear all,

I get monthly child maintenance from the children's father. I have asked that he pays for half the childrens new school uniform but he is refusing. I have said that the CM does not cover the costs of the uniform but be thinks otherwise.

Am i being unreasonable in requesting this?

OP posts:
lyralalala · 26/08/2020 09:23

@ZigZagPlant

*Is it still the "bare minimum" if you earn 100k a year or?

It is. CMS has a cap it will award. NRP's with genuinely high earning exes need to go through court, rather than CMS, to be allocated a proportional amount.*

This is not true. I think it is dealt with by the courts at £250k. My DH is within the CMS remit and pays £850 pcm which is still based on the same calculations as if you earn £10K per year.

In response to the OP, YANBU to ask. Its hard to measure how R his response is without knowing more about it.

It’s nowhere near 250k. The maximum income they’ll deal with is 3k a week. Which is around 146k I think.

Also if your income is between £800 and 3k a week you pay a smaller %

ZigZagPlant · 26/08/2020 09:28

Thanks I’ve just checked out of interest and it’s 156k that is the max they’ll deal with.

It is not a smaller percentage though. That is fixed. In any event the amount paid by those earners is pretty generous when taking account of the costs of raising a child. £850pcm paid my mortgage and bills at one time not that long ago.

How does that work - if the kids are with him 3 days a week, he has to provide for them for those 3 days - so that's 3 days of uniform.

I’m not sure I agree with the above. So if the NRP doesn’t have the children at all he doesn’t have to buy any school uniform? Surely that logic leaves the RP worse and not better off.

Bollss · 26/08/2020 09:30

huge in not trying to divert the discussion. Contrary to popular belief people are allowed to post their opinions even if they don't fit in with the hive mind. Hmm

ZigZagPlant · 26/08/2020 09:31

Apologies the percentage does reduce as income increases. That wasn’t my understanding. But I do believe the sentiment that it’s still a decent wack for high earners stands.

ZigZagPlant · 26/08/2020 09:35

I think £280 when he’s having them half the week should be adequate.

It often seems forgotten that CMS doesn’t necessarily cover ALL the expenses but is a contribution towards them. As someone upthread said the RP also gets the child benefit, tax credit. Those often aren’t insignificant amounts. If they don’t get them it’s because their income is already pretty good. The costs of childcare etc will be much less of an issue with nearly 50% care.

lyralalala · 26/08/2020 09:38

@ZigZagPlant

Apologies the percentage does reduce as income increases. That wasn’t my understanding. But I do believe the sentiment that it’s still a decent wack for high earners stands.
It’s all proportional though.

It’s actually ridiculous that the % drops imo. The child should have a lifestyle in keeping with their parents income. The higher the income, the more of a lifestyle they’ll have and the more expensive that will be.

It’s baffling that the richest people they deal with have to pay the lowest %.

That said I was told the majority of cases over 100k go through court instead (though that’s problematic as it can be overturned by CMS after 1 year and a day so repeat trips are often needed).

dontdisturbmenow · 26/08/2020 09:41

think £280 when he’s having them half the week should be adequate
Totally agree, assuming there are no childcare costs (in addition to what is claimed through tax credits).

Ultimately he has them almost half the time, and will then pay for their food, petrol needed to pick them up, additional electricity and assume has clothes for them they keep at his place.

£280 a month is quite a lot for what is almost 50/50 so yes, it's fair you should pay for school uniforms.

lyralalala · 26/08/2020 09:45

Ultimately he has them almost half the time, and will then pay for their food, petrol needed to pick them up, additional electricity and assume has clothes for them they keep at his place.

Which he gets a reduction in maintenance to reflect

Bibidy · 26/08/2020 09:50

Yes he's right, CMS is meant to cover his half of everything and it's his choice if he wants to contribute more. If you wanted to be awkward I guess you could buy less uniform and make sure it stays at your house somehow so he has to buy some for his days?

Tbh though, considering he has them 3 nights per week and presumably extra time during the holidays, he is potentially doing 50/50 and doesn't need to pay CMS at all. Or not the amount that he is anyway, so I wouldn't quibble over this.

Bibidy · 26/08/2020 09:52

Ultimately he has them almost half the time, and will then pay for their food, petrol needed to pick them up, additional electricity and assume has clothes for them they keep at his place.

Which he gets a reduction in maintenance to reflect

There's no way that what he's paying in CMS is actually based on him having them almost 50/50, it must have been set when things were different and maybe he was only having them every other weekend or something. He wouldn't need to pay £280 a month to cover the four extra days that their mum has them compared to him.

Positivitylieswithin · 26/08/2020 09:55

So a high earner can pay an extortionate amount in cms and you believe their lifestyle should reffect on this at rp house, I don't agree.
When at nrp house yes and cms should be at a standard to enable a comfortable enjoyable lifestyle at rp.

Who believes the huge amounts in cms would all go to the child because I don't at all. A nrp should not be contributing to the lifestyle of an ex just the child

Bibidy · 26/08/2020 10:03

So a high earner can pay an extortionate amount in cms and you believe their lifestyle should reffect on this at rp house, I don't agree.
When at nrp house yes and cms should be at a standard to enable a comfortable enjoyable lifestyle at rp.

Who believes the huge amounts in cms would all go to the child because I don't at all. A nrp should not be contributing to the lifestyle of an ex just the child

I agree to an extent.

CMS from high earners (as long as calculated honestly) will still provide a high quality lifestyle for the children when they are with their other parent. But that doesn't mean that, when all the wealth is earned by one side, the two households must be exactly equal in terms of disposable income.

I guess the problem when you've got a high earner in the equation is that a lot of the time the ex has not worked to earn their own living and they've been entirely dependent on the high earner when they were together. So you end up in a situation where one person retains their high income and the other doesn't have the skills or experience to get anything but minimum wage work, which might not be workable with childcare etc.

Positivitylieswithin · 26/08/2020 10:10

I get that #bibidy I just believe ex should be paying his share of what it costs to raise his children not a percentage of their income

Imagine if the child has an extravagant lifestyle at rp house and nrp is struggling, does rp have to help to maintain an equal style of living across both households, the answer is no

BammBamm · 26/08/2020 10:16

If your children stayed an extra night every fortnight you would be entitled to zero child maintenance.
IMO I don't think child maintenance should be payable in situations where the care is more or less equally split. Both parents have to provide housing, increased costs and have to provide clothing etc. The non-resident parent is already losing out by not being in receipt of child benefit, or the safety net of other benefits to support their children.
£280 is more than sufficient to cover half of the costs of the extra night per fortnight, so yes I think it is unreasonable to expect him to contribute further.

HugeAckmansWife · 26/08/2020 10:48

Genie it's nothing to do with a hive mind but THIS thread is about an NRP who pays nothing over the cms minimum and do we think they should. You are talking a situation where your dp does pay over cms so presumably you would agree that the OPs ex should contribute.

Specifically on this issue of uniform, if the kids are with the nrp on school days they should provide uniform for those days. If they want the RP to buy it all, they should contribute extra. As pp have said, they pay less maintenance to account for the idea that they WOULD provide the uniform on those days. If they don't, they should contribute. For an average earner, 12% of their gross is a drop in the ocean of what it really costs, though this is v hard to quantify

netflixismysidehustle · 26/08/2020 11:31

CMS is calculated on nights not days so a NRP picking you a child at 7pm and dropping off at 7am counts as a night and the reverse counts as not seeing the child that day and the NRP loses out financially. Maybe the NRP's 3 nights are based around their work schedule and the £280 helps pay for holiday clubs or similar so the OP can work? We don't know.

If OP's child is starting a new school it would be nice if ex helped. Secondary school uniform can be extremely expensive. In the case of primary, last year's stuff can often be reused and if OP is one of those people who buys new because it's the new school year rather than the children outgrowing it then I'd understand why the ex might say no. (I know from MN that there are people who buy new simply because it's a new school year)

Bollss · 26/08/2020 12:08

@HugeAckmansWife

Genie it's nothing to do with a hive mind but THIS thread is about an NRP who pays nothing over the cms minimum and do we think they should. You are talking a situation where your dp does pay over cms so presumably you would agree that the OPs ex should contribute.

Specifically on this issue of uniform, if the kids are with the nrp on school days they should provide uniform for those days. If they want the RP to buy it all, they should contribute extra. As pp have said, they pay less maintenance to account for the idea that they WOULD provide the uniform on those days. If they don't, they should contribute. For an average earner, 12% of their gross is a drop in the ocean of what it really costs, though this is v hard to quantify

yes, i know. I replied with what i think. I would agree that he should contribute half to uniform, of course. Unfortunately you cant force him to, which is what i said.

The thing with the shared care reduction is that its ambiguous, one extra night a fortnight and he would pay £0, whereas if he had one night less per fortnight it wouldn't rise by that.

For an average earner 12% really isnt a drop in the ocean of what it really costs, again thats a huge generalisation, everyone has different lifestyles etc.

i definitely dont spend 12% of my wage, plus 12% of dps wage solely on our joint child every month.

ZigZagPlant · 26/08/2020 12:42

@lyralalala. Don’t forget the tax bracket also changes to 40% so it’s still a higher proportion of take home pay.

AnneElliott · 26/08/2020 12:45

I agree he should pay but obvs there's no way to force it. I agree that there's no political will to sort this as most RPs are women. It would be massively different if it was men being disadvantaged in this way.

I do agree with the the way the US chase child support. You can't remarry or get a driving licence if you owe it.

copernicium · 26/08/2020 13:05

When DC both attended 50:50, he reduced his payments. I then said he was to provide clothes. Nope. He took me to court to have me ordered to provide all they needed during contact also. Including holidays.

Now DC don't attend 50:50, he won't increase his payments as he uses the court order as evidence that they still attend and he should still be on reduced payments.

ZigZagPlant · 26/08/2020 13:36

He took me to court to have me ordered to provide all they needed during contact also. Including holidays.

Presumably the court thought that was fair and reasonable based on the evidence? It sounds like he was still paying maintenance whilst care was shared, that in itself is unusual.

Nat6999 · 26/08/2020 13:56

If you get any benefits, check if your council do uniform grants, some do.

Bibidy · 26/08/2020 15:36

I get that #bibidy I just believe ex should be paying his share of what it costs to raise his children not a percentage of their income

Imagine if the child has an extravagant lifestyle at rp house and nrp is struggling, does rp have to help to maintain an equal style of living across both households, the answer is no

I do agree with you @Positivitylieswithin .

I guess both sides have pros and cons. My partner is an NRP (although very much not a high earner) and it sometimes feels like he does get the rough from all angles. He doesn't get to live with his children the majority of the time and then also struggles to afford to maintain a decent lifestyle for both himself and them when he has them due to the money that goes into their other household.

The problem is both sides are often stuck due to arrangements they've made when they were together, so the main earner usually doesn't have a flexible job, while the primary caregiver doesn't have the earning potential. Unfair all round but I guess that's what happens when you split up.

Positivitylieswithin · 26/08/2020 16:22

#bibidy you sound like such a lovely reasonable person

TheBusDriver · 26/08/2020 17:05

This is where I think Child Maintenance should be clearly defined instead of the wishy washy term it is now.

In theory a RP and NRP should have the same bills ie both for example should have a 3 bed house if they have 2 children. This would mean the majority of household running costs would be nearly the same.

Child Maintenance should cover clothes uniform clubs etc.

Why do parents insist on stuff in her house and his surely if its the child's should move between houses carefree?

If I was the nrp I would take them shopping and spend the money myself on them why would I give it the RP how do I know it will be spent on that?