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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

School Uniforms and CMS

170 replies

Eazypeazy · 25/08/2020 21:08

Dear all,

I get monthly child maintenance from the children's father. I have asked that he pays for half the childrens new school uniform but he is refusing. I have said that the CM does not cover the costs of the uniform but be thinks otherwise.

Am i being unreasonable in requesting this?

OP posts:
Bollss · 26/08/2020 06:49

@lyralalala

CMS is the bare minimum. In the vast majority of cases the amount paid goes nowhere near a 50% contribution toward the cost of a child - except on Mumsnet where every partner pays a huge amount.

Is it still the "bare minimum" if you earn 100k a year or?

It is. CMS has a cap it will award. NRP's with genuinely high earning exes need to go through court, rather than CMS, to be allocated a proportional amount.

I see. I mean, clearly it would be a hell of a lot of money but that's seemingly totally irrelevant.

It's got to the point for us where we pay more in maintenance and extras than we spend on the child who lives full time with us, which is why I question the stance of "it's never ever enough money" when sometimes it absolutely definitely is.

When we were rp for dss, we got a lot less than we pay now and no extras. I remember mentioning it on here (under a different name) and got told it was totally fine because obviously dp earned more and I could pick up the slack! Lots of double standards on here re maintenance.

ftm202020 · 26/08/2020 06:59

I agree child maintenance is enough in some cases. My ex gives me £850 a month. Me and my DH both work. It would be cheeky to ask for more money for uniforms. He never has overnights though. If the OP's ex has them 3 nights a week that is almost 50%, I don't think he should be spending anyone on top of his maintenance either tbh.

lyralalala · 26/08/2020 07:14

@TrustTheGeneGenie Given the stats on CMS the NRP's who pay a lot are very, very, very in the minimum. CMS actually have an appalling record at getting any money from a reluctant NRP.

There are always a few exceptions to the rule, but the whole "I know someone/my partner pays a lot" is basically akin to the "Benefits should be lower because I know a woman with 6 kids who gets thousands from their wealthy Dads" argument. It's a complete strawman because it's such a minority of cases.

Bollss · 26/08/2020 07:29

[quote lyralalala]**@TrustTheGeneGenie* Given the stats on CMS the NRP's who pay a lot are very, very, very in the minimum. CMS actually have an appalling record at getting any* money from a reluctant NRP.

There are always a few exceptions to the rule, but the whole "I know someone/my partner pays a lot" is basically akin to the "Benefits should be lower because I know a woman with 6 kids who gets thousands from their wealthy Dads" argument. It's a complete strawman because it's such a minority of cases.[/quote]
No it's not. So you're saying I can't say that not all cases are minimum or not enough to live on because "most aren't"

Sorry but no I will share my experience because it does happen. We faced inequality too but got no sympathy what so ever.

Maybe the majority of NRPs don't pay - sorry but that doesn't mean the ones who do and pay a good amount of money don't can't, can't comment etc.

JaggySplinter · 26/08/2020 07:32

If he has them on a school night, then be should buy a set of uniform for the following day. You shouldn't have to buy uniform for him to cover that. His maintenance takes into account that he has them overnight band is decreased accordingly. That's because he is expected to pay for what the DC need on his nights/days with them.

lyralalala · 26/08/2020 07:35

No it's not. So you're saying I can't say that not all cases are minimum or not enough to live on because "most aren't"

Sorry but no I will share my experience because it does happen. We faced inequality too but got no sympathy what so ever.

Maybe the majority of NRPs don't pay - sorry but that doesn't mean the ones who do and pay a good amount of money don't can't, can't comment etc.

The vast majority don't. There's no maybe in that.

If you want to jump on threads with someone struggling to wave your good DH flag fair enough, but painting your situation as the norm is completely disingenuous because it's simply not the case.

lyralalala · 26/08/2020 07:37

And the comparison was fair because they are both rare and do not paint a "normal" picture of the situation for most people.

Bollss · 26/08/2020 07:38

@lyralalala

No it's not. So you're saying I can't say that not all cases are minimum or not enough to live on because "most aren't"

Sorry but no I will share my experience because it does happen. We faced inequality too but got no sympathy what so ever.

Maybe the majority of NRPs don't pay - sorry but that doesn't mean the ones who do and pay a good amount of money don't can't, can't comment etc.

The vast majority don't. There's no maybe in that.

If you want to jump on threads with someone struggling to wave your good DH flag fair enough, but painting your situation as the norm is completely disingenuous because it's simply not the case.

Excuse me but where have I claimed it is "the norm"

I simply said you can't call it a minimum because it's different for everyone.

I don't recall op mentioning her struggling either, just asking a question.

By that rhetoric we "struggled" for years but nobody gave a shit then. Wonder why?

vanillandhoney · 26/08/2020 07:44

I simply said you can't call it a minimum because it's different for everyone

It's a minimum percentage. Not a minimum amount. Not the same thing.

NRP's are only required to pay a maximum of a certain percentage of their income (the percentage will vary depending on the number of children) to a maximum of x per month.

So while you could argue that 2k (or however much) a month is a huge amount of money, it's still only the minimum that the NRP is required to pay.

Positivitylieswithin · 26/08/2020 07:46

He pays full maintenance and has the children almost half of the week in which he provides for them. I don't spend £280 a month on my 2 children who reside with me.
I dont know what your full situation and it's sometimes not that straight forward

HugeAckmansWife · 26/08/2020 07:47

Also, 3/4 nights adds up to quite a difference over a year. 52x3 = 156 53 x 4 212. 56 nights. The OP will almost certainly be the 'default' parent dealing with letters home, the 'admin' that comes with a school age child and the incidental expenses that come with that.
CMS is a minimum, regardless of the actual amount as its a %. If an NRP is a high earner, their child should be benefitting from that in the same way they would if they lived with them. As a pp said, very few RPs only use that same % of their income for the kids.

Junglerum · 26/08/2020 07:49

In my experience no money in the world is expected to go further than the minimum cms from a nrp Angry

Bollss · 26/08/2020 07:49

@vanillandhoney

I simply said you can't call it a minimum because it's different for everyone

It's a minimum percentage. Not a minimum amount. Not the same thing.

NRP's are only required to pay a maximum of a certain percentage of their income (the percentage will vary depending on the number of children) to a maximum of x per month.

So while you could argue that 2k (or however much) a month is a huge amount of money, it's still only the minimum that the NRP is required to pay.

It's the reccomended amount. The CMS don't sent you a letter saying this is your minimum payment like a credit card.

It's disingenuous to say CMS doesn't reflect living costs, isn't enough to bring up a child, is the bare minimum because whilst that will be true for some people it won't be true for others.

And it's income based so for those saying it's not enough it's not enough, you have to remember the other party has to live as well. Yes it's shit they don't earn more but what can you do.

Dps ex didn't earn much so we got next to fuck all maintenance, it didn't cost us less to bring him up than it did her but we got less contribution than she did. But what can you do?

(Btw I am not reffering to people just avoiding it when they can pay - I have no respect for them whatsoever)

Menora · 26/08/2020 07:52

I get £280 a month and for 2 kids that’s £30 each a week. Doesn’t actually go very far. I always asked for help with uniform, at secondary it’s very expensive, also books for GCSE. Ex literally has to give them one or two meals a week, Christmas and birthday presents so I stood my ground over it

lyralalala · 26/08/2020 07:53

It is a minimum. It’s the minimum you are legally allowed to get away with contributing.

lyralalala · 26/08/2020 07:55

@Positivitylieswithin

He pays full maintenance and has the children almost half of the week in which he provides for them. I don't spend £280 a month on my 2 children who reside with me. I dont know what your full situation and it's sometimes not that straight forward
He’s not providing them with school uniform despite having them midweek.

I’d bet any money the vast majority of clothes for the weekends go from the OP’s as well.

He gets a maintenance reduction for his overnights. He should be providing half of their clothing. Which for school age kids means either having uniform or sharing the cost with the other parent

Bollss · 26/08/2020 07:55

@lyralalala

It is a minimum. It’s the minimum you are legally allowed to get away with contributing.
Again " allowed to get away with"

That fits if you're paying £7 a week but not hundreds a week.

Very emotive language used to make men (let's face it it's mostly men) look bad.

It's funny because whenever it's a woman paying maintenance there is usually a sympathy there about what she can actually afford. No mention of getting away with anything.

lyralalala · 26/08/2020 07:56

It’s also a dick move to wait until August to decide to tell the OP he’s changing the arrangement they’ve had for the last few years. Says a lot about him

Bollss · 26/08/2020 07:57

@lyralalala

It’s also a dick move to wait until August to decide to tell the OP he’s changing the arrangement they’ve had for the last few years. Says a lot about him
I don't see your point considering I'm not actually talking about him. I made a general point. He might be an arsehole, I don't know him.
lyralalala · 26/08/2020 07:58

@TrustTheGeneGenie you do realise the people on this thread may not have been the ones on your thread?

Different people = different opinions.

The vast majority of men who have to go through CMS pay the minimum amount they are allowed to get away with. You can call it emotive if you want, but it’s fact

Positivitylieswithin · 26/08/2020 07:59

#lyralalala so he is supposed to pay full maintenance, provide for children when they are with him (which is almost half the week) and pay for all clothes and everything they need on top of this?

Achilleus · 26/08/2020 07:59

ExH has our children 3 nights per week, I have them 4 (generally). I class this as shared custody so don't get any CMS.

He has uniform and clothes at his house, I have uniform and clothes at mine. We tend to make it even for other stuff like school shoes or PE kit etc.

lyralalala · 26/08/2020 08:00

Sorry do I now have to make every point relevant to you? I didn’t address it to you as it was a general point

I posted the dick move comment because it shows his character

You’re determined to take over the Op’s thread complaining that you didn’t get support. Why not start your own and you might get different opinions from different people?

Bollss · 26/08/2020 08:01

[quote lyralalala]@TrustTheGeneGenie you do realise the people on this thread may not have been the ones on your thread?

Different people = different opinions.

The vast majority of men who have to go through CMS pay the minimum amount they are allowed to get away with. You can call it emotive if you want, but it’s fact[/quote]
It wasn't my thread it was a comment on another thread. And I recognise some of the names so... Yeno. It's always the same faces.

It may be the vast majority. I haven't ever claimed it's not. It's the painting of it being ALL MEN which is utter utter shite. And of course, it's completely different when the NRP is a woman.

lyralalala · 26/08/2020 08:01

@Positivitylieswithin

#lyralalala so he is supposed to pay full maintenance, provide for children when they are with him (which is almost half the week) and pay for all clothes and everything they need on top of this?
He’s supposed to provide clothes for the time b is with him. He gets a reduction in maintenance to reflect this.

They are there midweek therefore need uniform. He should either be buying this or paying toward it. Why shouldn’t he?

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