To think you're not allowed to be proud of breastfeeding any more....

[TheatreJunkie84]

NOT a breast is best thread.

I've had the journey from hell. Tongue tie, painful feeds, thrush, not gaining weight, shitty latch, literally everything except low supply....but here I am 3 months in still going, on a combination of formula, pumped milk and boob.

I posted on a local baby group today a picture of me feeding, with a caption about how proud I was to still be going at nearly 3 months despite all the crap...thanking my local group and its peer supporters for their role in keeping me going and encouraging others to seek their help as they were so lovely and wonderful.

It started off well...messages of congrats and other stories of the peer supporters helping out new mums. Suddenly out of nowhere I got called arrogant and told I should have some respect for all the mums that choose to formula feed and I shouldn't throw be throwing it down everyones necks. Before I knew it loads of other mums all joined in, basically saying breastfeeding is nothing to be proud of and I should shut up. Things along the lines of 'big whoop you can feed your baby I cant so this makes you better than me? Piss off.'

I quickly deleted it, feeling really ashamed of myself. I'm on the verge tears now every time I think about it. Am I being unreasonable here? I honestly wanted to give up so many times....but the local group kept me going and if posting about my success can encourage other mums to seek their help then that's surely only a good thing?

I don't know.

Feel free to celebrate the fact you made up bottles every night and kept the water clean if you like no ones stopping you

No, we're upset that that was all we could do for our babies.

Well done op, it’s lovely that you’re getting on with it but anything relating to birth and babies is so sensitive for so many people. I suppose it’s be similar to writing on a Facebook page that you’re so proud of yourself for giving birth naturally and overcoming I don’t know, stitches etc and hours of labour. Absolutely fair play, giving birth is a massive struggle but somebody who went through a cs might read that and feel a bit as they maybe didn’t have the opportunity for a natural labour and feel as if you’re crowing about it.

I think we all just have to be as considerate of each other as we can when it comes to this stuff without it taking anything away from anyone else. It’s difficult

I think it's an amazing achievement. I sent my SIL flowers when she reached 6 months. It takes a lot of sacrifice to BF and can come with a lot of issues, it's like the "all lives matter" debacle, saying you've done brilliantly isn't saying anyone else has done poorly.

Why are one group allowed (rightly) to express a set of feelings about their feeding experience but another group are dismissed and minimised as bitter, offended etc when they talk about theirs? I’d never comment on a post like the OP’s on FB, I’d scroll on by, but why are women who did feel shame around formula feeding just told to shut up and get over it when it’s so obviously a result of the terrible narrative around BF in this country which uses shame as motivation instead of support. It wouldn’t be happening to so many women if it wasn’t a system wide problem.

I agree, but I think the issue is the fact it is one response to.’

I see a lot of:
“I breastfeed!”
“Well I couldn’t so please can we not talk about it, you’re shaming me”

I don’t see a lot of:
“I formula feed!”
“Well I breastfeed my baby so you should feel ashamed.”

Happy to accept they’re both happening if people have experiences that suggest they do. However, neither should exist. Neither. The answer to both should be: “well done, being a mother is hard, I support you.”

Internalized misogyny is what's driving many of these attitudes. Check out the familiar rhetoric. 'Be modest. Be demure. Be kind. Be polite. Never criticise. Never take pride in your achievements: that's boastful and goading. Whatever you do don't make a firm decision and take ownership of it. Support other women in every eventuality, on no other basis than that of your shared sex. The Sisterhood'. And repeat ad nauseum. If any of this doesn't sound familiar, just read back over the previous thread. (And these threads always, always travel in the same direction).

Well, to fuck with that noise. Men don't get shot down for showing pride in what they do, for owning decisions they make, for plain-speaking, or for not offering a ready-made support system on no other basis than the fact they're also men. Women tend to take on the emotional labour, and this is why you don't hear fathers giving a sun-blushed crap who works, who stays at home, and where and what other families feed their kids. And in the meantime, medical services and support for things like infertility, BF, etc., are woefully underfunded and seriously inadequate. (Would that be anything to do with the fact that they're geared toward women)?

This constant breast -v- bottle, SAMH -v- WOHM sparring is feeding and supporting that system. And if you think some of the worst misogyny isn't perpetuated by other women, don't kid yourself. (Again, see above). This is exactly the sort of shit women should be banding together to challenge, not splitting hairs over each other's family decisions or feeding substances on a micro-level. And calling each other nasty, sexist pejoratives like 'bitch' isn't going to help, either.

People make such a big deal about BF, and at the time it is of course a massive deal to most mothers (whether they BF or not). But parenting is not a competitive sport. It doesn't really matter what anyone else is doing, as long as their parenting style does not raise safeguarding issues e.g. violence or leaving young children home alone for hours.

Excellently put.

No one is better than anyone else when it comes to parenting. We're all trying to muddle through it the best we can.
For some, it's always got to be a contest.
FF/BF turns into the BLW argument, my child crawled/walked/talked first, my child reached such and such a milestone early, 'Oh, your child can't read yet? Well mine has just finished War and Peace'.. and on and on it goes.
It genuinely doesn't matter and, by the time you're worrying about the competition of the next milestone, you'll have forgotten about how much you cared about the first.

It's exhausting!

I think it’s an odd thing to post on social media about. I thought I would find breast feeding difficult but I didn’t. It was really easy and convenient and I had no problems at all. But I didn’t post about it.

It was national breastfeeding week or something the other week. Bit twee maybe but who cares, it's always national something or other week. Lots of my friends posted breastfeeding pictures and stories on social media along the lines of the OP.

I've got three children. Failed at breastfeeding one, didn't want to breastfeed one and breastfed one for a few months. So I'm probably a combination of the the type of people who would read your post and nothing about it 'offends' me, why would it?

Good for you if you are proud of something, even it's quite mundane to some people, it's fine to celebrate that. People post all sorts of 'proud' things on social media - sports achievements, work successes, things their kids have done or even if they have just done a nice job on their own hair and makeup. Sure there will be people who aren't interested but that's Facebook for you. This is no different in my opinion.

Amen @MarieIVanArkleStinks

I suppose all the people here sneering that its weird to want to celebrate and share breastfeeding, also never announced or celebrated the birth of their own child, all in case it offended somebody who didn't want, or couldn't have children?

I mean, all you did was have sex once, right?

When people talk about being proud about this and that I'm generally happy for them, BUT depending on the exact wording of your post on a very sensitive subject for many women, I can understand why people felt you were coming across as smug.

I breastfed for a short while, but multiple issues were too much for me and rather than battle through as some do, I wanted to enjoy my babies and chose to formula feed. A couple of times I've listed the issues I had and had the response that 'oh I had all those, plus a,b and c and I still breastfed.' The only purpose of this kind of reply is to insinuate that I didn't try hard enough. That the other mum was better than me for working through all the issues ( which of course she isn't). I often wonder why women feel the need to diminish other women like this? By listing all your issues, it could have come across in a similar way.

You could have just said 'If anyone needs breastfeeding support I highly recommend this group. DM me if you'd like more info.' Plus you included a picture...all a bit much OP.

Getoffyourhighhorse

( ironic username btw )

If people want your advice theyll ask for it<

it was a baby group, people are there to share and receive advice. Come on!

Internalized misogyny is what's driving many of these attitudes. Check out the familiar rhetoric. 'Be modest. Be demure. Be kind. Be polite. Never criticise. Never take pride in your achievements: that's boastful and goading. Whatever you do don't make a firm decision and take ownership of it. Support other women in every eventuality, on no other basis than that of your shared sex. The Sisterhood'. And repeat ad nauseum. If any of this doesn't sound familiar, just read back over the previous thread. (And these threads always, always travel in the same direction

Once again, totally this. Thank you, your posts are thoughtful and hit the nail on the head. I wish more women could see what this is. Let everyone do what works for them and celebrate, be proud, struggle, find it easy, find it hard... whatever! and just support or cheer as needed. Why do anything else? really. Griping that someone posted a breast-feeding photo is very anti-women.

PrincessBuggerPants yes exactly.

@MrsMcTats

When people talk about being proud about this and that I'm generally happy for them, BUT depending on the exact wording of your post on a very sensitive subject for many women, I can understand why people felt you were coming across as smug.

I breastfed for a short while, but multiple issues were too much for me and rather than battle through as some do, I wanted to enjoy my babies and chose to formula feed. A couple of times I've listed the issues I had and had the response that 'oh I had all those, plus a,b and c and I still breastfed.' The only purpose of this kind of reply is to insinuate that I didn't try hard enough. That the other mum was better than me for working through all the issues ( which of course she isn't). I often wonder why women feel the need to diminish other women like this? By listing all your issues, it could have come across in a similar way.

You could have just said 'If anyone needs breastfeeding support I highly recommend this group. DM me if you'd like more info.' Plus you included a picture...all a bit much OP.

But your post could also insinuate that women who experience issues when breastfeeding don’t enjoy their babies.

Plus you included a picture...all a bit much OP'

Still excited for someone to explain why posting a photo in a baby group of a baby feeding is a bit much.

It's the same as mums taking about a natural, painkiller & intervention free birth.
You're proud of yourself, that's great - but others don't need to be proud for you.

The thing is, neither op nor anyone else asked others to be proud for them. And yet they get mocked for daring to express that they are proud of themselves, told they are seeking praise, dismissed as attention seeking.

And they aren't a worse mother than you for choosing/needing to do something different.
Of course not. Did op say they were? Are those of us in this thread supporting op saying that women who made other choices or were forced into other actions are worse mothers? No. Yet the assumption is that we must be.

I can be proud of myself and pleased for myself without judging others. I am proud I breastfed in the face of sustained pressure by everyone in my life not to. I am proud I ignored all the unkind comments people made. I am pleased that I had the births I was aiming for. I am proud that I was able to stand up to people pressuring me to make decisions that would have ruled those births out. And I am not going to be shamed into pretending otherwise.

There are many, many ways in which I have fucked up or failed to achieve a goal or just had things go totally wrong as a parent. So many ways. I don't sit around complaining that parents whose eldest child doesn't truant, doesn't get excluded, doesn't get brought home by the police, doesn't engage in recreational drug use, doesn't attack his family and so on are daring to speak or post about the positive achievements of their child and how proud it makes them. I know that their pride has no fucking relevance whatsoever to my difficulties and as a parent who has experienced some real challenges, I am glad for other people when I see they are not experiencing the same. My eldest won't get GCSEs, hell, we will be lucky if the boy doesn't get excluded from the latest AP, but that doesn't stop me applauding and being happy for them when friends post about their children getting a string of fantastic results. Because other people are allowed joy even if I am not experiencing it.

I'm going to leave this thread now.

@PrincessBuggerPants The birth of my child was the most beautiful, important experience of my life.
I've never felt infatuation like it.

Yet I'm not arrogant enough to believe that everyone else will care about her birth as much as I do. To others, it's pretty mundane. They coo and aw over the baby then move on.

It's the same with everything. My mum died. It broke my heart and caused pain like I'd never felt. I still feel that pain to this day but I don't expect others to mourn over her like I do.

This is such an issue in the age of social media. Everything needs to be 'announced.' Engagements, births, deaths, new jobs, redundancies, divorces... when the harsh reality is that not many people, outside of the immediate family/affected people, care. They acknowledge and then move on.

Burritofan I never said a word about Dad's, after all they don't breast feed. If you need a medal for feeding your child then maybe Motherhood is not for you.

@PrincessBuggerPants

I suppose all the people here sneering that its weird to want to celebrate and share breastfeeding, also never announced or celebrated the birth of their own child, all in case it offended somebody who didn't want, or couldn't have children?

That depends. If somebody had written, 'I really really wanted a vaginal birth. It was really long, really tough, really awful but I got there eventually thanks to my nerves of steel and positive thinking. I want you all to know you can do it too. Here is a photo of the baby being born and a link to my hypnobirthing website (all in the name of signposting, naturally)' then yes, I imagine they would get shitty comments.

If OP had posted 'If anyone is looking for bfing support, here are the details of a fab group. Really helped me. Feel free to PM if you want to chat about it', I would be really surprised if she got any negative comments.

Like I said, it's not what you do, it is the way you do it.

I can see both sides and despite you saying that this isn't a breast is best thread it will come across as such.

You are free to be proud of establishing bf.

The others are free to feel shit reading your post as ff is seen as lazy/love baby less/less ideal than bf.

As someone has probably said already, nobody cares about this sort of thing as much as you will and being proud will be seen as a stealth boast or goady. (I assume that you're in the UK where boasting is rarely ok) This goes for dc reading/using the toilet/getting A-levels and not limited to feeding and any praise for these are just politeness unless there's special circumstances like medical issues that delayed walking for instance.
I don't think there's ever been a time that you could be proud to bf. I am a mum of teens and it was definitely not seen as something to be proud of when I was a new mum and I think previous generations saw it as just feeding. I think that there's an element of luck involved in establishing bf and without a supportive partner and knowing which organizations to contact etc. There is a class element too - middle class mums tend to bf more than working class mums judging by how often I see babies bf while out and about.

@Vivi0 All the issues I had meant I was missing the newborn days because everything became about breastfeeding. By moving onto formula I could finally enjoy being a mum. Other women are able to battle through and come out the other side. I didn't say they don't enjoy their babies at the same time. We all have different stress, patience and pain thresholds.

@MillyMollyFarmer

Getoffyourhighhorse

( ironic username btw )

If people want your advice theyll ask for it<

it was a baby group, people are there to share and receive advice. Come on!

Ah if only I had a pound for every mumsmetter who said 'ironic username!'. I like a bit of irony.

The point was the op later had said 'she was only trying to help people'. Rather admitting the 'proud to bf'was actually disingenuous bollocks. Infant feeding is a sensitive issue, the op should try a bit of sensitivity instead of jumping in with her size 9s, that's all. Read the room if you like.

Wow you fed a baby - well done. You are not special we all do it. What a ridiculous post - you would get up my nose tbh

Well done OP. You should be proud and other people should be more considerate of you. It should be fine to post about it and it might well encourage others who are struggling to continue.
Sometimes it feels it's all a bit one sided in that you can only sympathise with those who bottle feed and have had a rough time. People should also sympathise with breast feeders who have had a tough time and they should also congratulate you on over coming your difficulties.
I exclusively breastfed twins for 6 months and continued to breast feed them until they were 1. It was very difficult. I was in agony at the beginning, I had scabs on my nipples and had to grit my teeth and curl my toes to feed. It was really hard for 8 weeks when it all settled down and was then a wonderful experience.
Thanks agree the bottle feeding brigade can be very nasty and inconsiderate towards breast feeders.
Congratulations again and it's very justified to feel proud. You have done a fab thing.