Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

List of rules making me feel on edge

235 replies

Ziggyzaggy · 24/08/2020 15:58

My daughter has been home since march and will be going into year one next week. The school said that they will be in a class bubble before the summer holidays. They made it clear that the kids would just be mixing in that one class. I was fine with it and because she's in with her best friend I know she'll be happy. We've just had a long email from the headmaster with all the new rules and guidance and plans in place. Basically the kids will be going through the fire exits into the classroom. They won't be allowed to use the corridors. They have decided that despite the government saying they don't need to social distance in bubbles that they are going to make them social distance anyway. they've decided that children can't touch each other in the bubble and no-contact games will be allowed. They won't be allowed to sit on the carpet and the children will be at desks facing forward. They will only be allowed to the toilet in a bubble slot and they are banned from sharing food. They have to clean up their own cuts and scrapes but if they can't you will be called to collect your child and clean them up yourself at home. the school will report your child to the health authority if they shows signs of being unwell but will inform you of this. They are only allowed to walk home with the adult and not with their class friends. They want us there for 9 a.m. in the morning. they don't want us to be early and they don't want us to go near other parents as we queue down the street. they are encouraging kids to go through the gate by themselves and say goodbye to their parents at the gate. the teachers are allowed to help children with work but have to stay at least 1 metres away and can't help them for no more than 15 minutes. my daughter has not been at school for months and barely got into reception before lockdown. I'm well aware that the schools will be supporting the kids as well and trying to teach these new rules in a fun way but I feel like my daughter will mess up every day. She's used to holding hands with her friends and walking with her best friend to school. They all used to share snacks after school in the playground. they are used to sitting together and working together as a team. suddenly now they're not even going to be allowed to sit and do activities together. I know it might sound worse on paper but I just think for a 5-year old this experience of school is really negative. They won't be having assemblies or anything at the moment and they've said for the first two terms that theres no school meals. It just sounds really tough for a five-year-old. I hope the school make it fun and this doesn't put my daughter of going to school. It upsets me to think of her being told off for going near friends. they've also said that people can't pick your child up from a different bubble. that's going to make it hard for some parents as they used to share the school runs with friends last year. I'm presuming that my family can collect my child if there's ever a reason I can't go go but it just all seems very strict at the moment. I understand but it's confusing for them to suddenly not be allowed to do anything they used to. Not to mention having to walk in alone from the gates after a long break to a new class and teacher.

It looks like these plans are remaining until at least January. Kids will be full of anxiety being expected to be so mature so young.

OP posts:
DappledThings · 25/08/2020 12:36

Me too, I also started school in 1980. My school was new and modern and we sat in groups around tables, as kids do now, or used to until recently. Lots of schools still had the wooden desks though.

I started in 1983. We did have wooden tables with the flip up lids and ink wells but they were still turned in in sets of four. None of this individual ones all facing forward and I definitely remember carpet time and playing as well.

DappledThings · 25/08/2020 12:40

@mummag

Genuinely confused re the people not wanting social distancing at school. Why not? I think during lock down in general that's been one of the key things that has helped control the virus. Why do kids not have to do it when they are all going to be in much busier school environment? Just wondering if there is something I am missing here.
Because many of us believe the potential for damage to children's mental health when they are told to keep away from their friends and not to interact with them as they naturally would is a much bigger risk than that of catching and transmitting covid.

My 2 and 4 year olds have been at nursery throughout with no social distancing. If SD had been imposed I would have withdrawn them. Being at home and not able to see friends at all would have been far less confusing and miserable for them than being able to see them bit not hug them or play with them as normal.

DominaShantotto · 25/08/2020 12:59

@mummag

Genuinely confused re the people not wanting social distancing at school. Why not? I think during lock down in general that's been one of the key things that has helped control the virus. Why do kids not have to do it when they are all going to be in much busier school environment? Just wondering if there is something I am missing here.
You're missing understanding the logistics of fitting kids into the classroom, you're missing understanding the mental distress it's caused to children, you're missing the fact that young children can't judge distance anyway.

But carry on with the faux naivety and trying to hijack the thread.

mummag · 25/08/2020 13:00

So is it a case then that you would like it just to go back to pre covid school? I'm not saying that in an argumentative way or anything just seeing if that's the case. I mean obviously we all wish that but whilst it's here do you agree we need to have things in place in schools to protect adults within school and out as well as the children. Or is it that you thing the kids should be able to mix but the adults are allowed to keep their distance from them wherever possible?

DappledThings · 25/08/2020 13:05

So is it a case then that you would like it just to go back to pre covid school?
At least for infants age (4-7) then yes. Risk to adults of transmission from children is minimal. Maybe with a bit of separating year groups but not peers.

mummag · 25/08/2020 13:15

@DappledThings

So is it a case then that you would like it just to go back to pre covid school? At least for infants age (4-7) then yes. Risk to adults of transmission from children is minimal. Maybe with a bit of separating year groups but not peers.
Not sure if the risks are entirely understood re children to adults transmission. Think that will become more clear but then may not ever be that clear given might be hard to see where an infection started. But schools have not been back fully operational in England yet so not convinced by that yet. I am pleased schools are going back.
BigChocFrenzy · 25/08/2020 13:15

"No matter how much frothing the Left continue to do, it's just not a viable long term option"

It's not a left / right issue
e.g. in Sweden the rightwing opposition are hammering the left-green coalition government for the number of deaths and not taking enough SD measures

People of all political persuasions have different views on which risks they are prepared to take

However, whether parents have anxiety about school rules, or anxiety about the risks from COVID,
they should keep it 100% to themselves and reassure their kids

mummag · 25/08/2020 13:17

I was genuinely asking as it had not occurred to me what the issue was.

ineedaholidaynow · 25/08/2020 13:24

If there is a child in the class who has been recently shielding would you still think it should be business as usual. Yes transmission child to child is not common but as far as I am aware it is not non-existent.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/08/2020 13:26

The measures would be disproportionately OTT if their purpose was just to keep the children safe:

==> these precautions are entirely for middle-aged - not young - or vulnerable staff and family members

So a school may have tighter or more relaxed rules, depending on how many middle-aged or vulnerable staff members they have,
together with current community infection levels in their catchment area.

Assessing the Age Specificity of Infection Fatality Rates for COVID-19: Systematic Review, Meta-Analysis, and Public Policy Implications

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.23.20160895v3.full.pdf

"The estimated age-specific IFRs are close to zero for children and younger adults ..... but rises exponentially with age
.....
middle-aged adults, for whom the infection fatality rate is more than 50 times greater than the annualized risk of a fatal automobile accident"

BigChocFrenzy · 25/08/2020 13:29

@ineedaholidaynow

If there is a child in the class who has been recently shielding would you still think it should be business as usual. Yes transmission child to child is not common but as far as I am aware it is not non-existent.
.... This is why parents should be allowed to keep their children home if they wish It is wrong to restrict the rights of all parents just because of a neglectful / abusive minority

Maybe there could be specific exemption from fines wrt any child with a previous shielding assessment

Bluntness100 · 25/08/2020 13:30

Gosh, op relax. It’s just for a few weeks, don’t let your attribute run off on your child.

IceCreamSummer20 · 25/08/2020 13:57

@BigChocFrenzy

The measures would be disproportionately OTT if their purpose was just to keep the children safe:

==> these precautions are entirely for middle-aged - not young - or vulnerable staff and family members

So a school may have tighter or more relaxed rules, depending on how many middle-aged or vulnerable staff members they have,
together with current community infection levels in their catchment area.

Assessing the Age Specificity of Infection Fatality Rates for COVID-19: Systematic Review, Meta-Analysis, and Public Policy Implications

[[https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.23.20160895v3.full.pdf]]

"The estimated age-specific IFRs are close to zero for children and younger adults ..... but rises exponentially with age
.....
middle-aged adults, for whom the infection fatality rate is more than 50 times greater than the annualized risk of a fatal automobile accident"

@BigChocFrenzy knows what she is talking about. If you read anything, read this!
LadyPenelope68 · 25/08/2020 14:04

@ithinkiveseenthisfilmbefore
Frankly, I'm in more danger than they are. So are the rest of the grown ups. The children are overwhelmingly likely to be just find, even if they test positive at some point. The procedures in place are to protect the grown ups who are less likely to be 'just fine'.
Exactly this.
However, there are many parents (not all) who don’t care a dam that teachers are being put in a position where they’re not socially distancing and not wearing masks and having to deal with other people’s cuts/scrapes/vomit etc, therefore, increasing their risk significantly of catching this virus. All their bothered about is their children being back in school and then moaning about precautions being put in place.

mummag · 25/08/2020 14:14

[quote LadyPenelope68]@ithinkiveseenthisfilmbefore
Frankly, I'm in more danger than they are. So are the rest of the grown ups. The children are overwhelmingly likely to be just find, even if they test positive at some point. The procedures in place are to protect the grown ups who are less likely to be 'just fine'.
Exactly this.
However, there are many parents (not all) who don’t care a dam that teachers are being put in a position where they’re not socially distancing and not wearing masks and having to deal with other people’s cuts/scrapes/vomit etc, therefore, increasing their risk significantly of catching this virus. All their bothered about is their children being back in school and then moaning about precautions being put in place.[/quote]
This. I totally get why the op has been shaken by all the rules actually as they can be quite stark when you read them. However most schools will do whatever it takes to make the children feel safe and to learn as best they can. These are weird times. The aggressive manner of posters on here seems to be getting worse though.

LabiaMinoraPissusFlapus · 25/08/2020 14:18

That is so awful and I believe this is down to some teachers' anxiety rather than about being 'safe', god I hate that word now. It is as though they are punishing the children for being there. Our schools are not like that, but if they start pushing their anxiety onto my children I will be very angry and will likely take them out.

Newuname199987 · 25/08/2020 14:27

If you feel so strongly that they are too young for starting school and have so many worries then you should deregister her and homeschool full time. I’m sure she’ll survive not being able to sit in a circle on a carpet once a day. She’s hardly been at school anyway so slight differences shouldn’t be a problem. Picking up anxiety about it from you on the other hand...

LadyPenelope68 · 25/08/2020 14:48

@LabiaMinoraPissusFlapus
That is so awful and I believe this is down to some teachers' anxiety
How offensive! It’s not down to teachers’ anxieties, it’s down to following Government guidance to make EVERYONE in school safe.

ScarMatty · 25/08/2020 16:44

@LabiaMinoraPissusFlapus

That is so awful and I believe this is down to some teachers' anxiety rather than about being 'safe', god I hate that word now. It is as though they are punishing the children for being there. Our schools are not like that, but if they start pushing their anxiety onto my children I will be very angry and will likely take them out.
Are you feeling ok?
Aragog · 26/08/2020 07:40

Break these down a bit:

going through the fire exits into the classroom/won't be allowed to use the corridors. - makes sense, reduces crowded corridors, many schools already use doors directly into classrooms

they've decided that children can't touch each other in the bubble - generally encouraged to keep their hands to themselves anyway in class as not everyone likes being grabbed, hugged etc. Normal quick contact is unlikely to be commented upon anyway ime.

no-contact games will be allowed - lots of games that invoke no contact, both at playtime and in PR. Government advised, lots of fun suggestions provided during lockdown from a range of PE specialists. At lower primary non contact is often used

sit on the carpet - no real loss anyway as many don't like to sit if the hard scratchy (and frankly unclean) carpets squashed up. Most, ime, prefer the chance to sit in a chair.

at desks facing forward - from the governments be fair lots of schools have forward facing tables and chairs as it is easier for all children to see the board when working

allowed to the toilet in a bubble slot - that will get stopped fairly quickly in lower primary as young children won't necessarily be able to wait; but again it was recommended by the government during lock down

they are banned from sharing food - this is always the case at any school I've worked at

clean up their own cuts and scrapes but if they can't you will be called to collect your child and clean them up yourself at home - this is OTT and not part of government guidelines. I suspect it will be dropped quickly due to practicalities. However I suspect many children of even 5 or 6 could wipe their own graze easily if asked to. - we often hand children a wet paper towel to hold on their own bump or scrape as it is

the school will report your child to the health authority if they shows signs of being unwell but will inform you of this - I assume this is for Covid checks and would be limited to thE symptoms linked to this; I wonder if it is part of the system of schools having their own tests to send home; I susceptible they have to be registered by school in some official site to say when they have been sent to be used

They are only allowed to walk home with the adult and not with their class friends - everyone should be social distancing so they should only walk home with their own household anyway. They can no doubt be with friends but only if 2m apart

They want us there for 9 a.m. in the morning/they don't want us to be early a obviously this is to help them manage their entry and exits to school. Many schools already don't allow children into the playground before school begins

they don't want us to go near other parents as we queue down the street - everyone should be SDing anyway as part of government guidelines; you shouldn't be within 2m of another household

they are encouraging kids to go through the gate by themselves and say goodbye to their parents at the gate - makes sense and lots of schools already do this; if it's new to your school then they will build up to it (see the use of the word encouraged)

the teachers are allowed to help children with work but have to stay at least 1 metres away and can't help them for no more than 15 minutes - this is the recommendation on school risk assessments sent by the Lea here (from the government) To be fair 15 minutes would be a long time to stand/sit next to one child in a lesson anyway unless a TA working with a specific child/children 1m isn't that far away either if you measure it. Lots of children don't like an adult stood much closer than that as it is.

They won't be having assemblies - part of government guidelines to fit it with the large gatherings

no school meals - must be an issue with the school kitchens. We can only offer cold sandwich bags initially due to the canteen, which is located at the next school (not ours) and we also have a lot of vulnerable lunch staff due to their age or other health complications. We can't use the main hall for lunches due to it being too crowded (same as assemblies reason) and we can't realistically get the hot food from next doors kitchen into 9 different classrooms at our school.

Ithat people can't pick your child up from a different bubble - the general SDing rules are that you cant be within 2m of someone from another household so that means someone else picking up your child could be a safety risk

Some of these rules will not really be fully adhered too, they'll be relaxed once back in school. Some are part of the general SDing between households rules that everyone should be following right now anyway. Some are due to the practicalities of specific school layouts, etc.

Aragog · 26/08/2020 07:42

Risk to adults of transmission from children is minimal.

If only schools only ever contained children, eh?

In infant schools it is even more likely there will be more than one adult in a classroom at a time.

scaevola · 26/08/2020 07:56

Risk to adults of transmission from children is minimal

That missed a bit "assuming no underlying medical conditions"

That assumption is not well founded

3% of the population (any age) was asked to shield because of exceptional vulnerability. Millions more are vulnerable.

Do you think vulnerable people have no contact with schools and schoolchildren?

DirtyBlonde · 26/08/2020 07:58

no-contact games will be allowed

That's good actually. It means that football (counts as a contact sport) cannot dominate playgrounds. Play might well became more varied and more creative

LadyPenelope68 · 26/08/2020 09:17

@DappledThings
So is it a case then that you would like it just to go back to pre covid school? Risk to adults of transmission from children is minimal
Can I ask what you do for a job?

LittleBearPad · 26/08/2020 10:03

@Aragog I won’t quote your post as it’s long Smile but it’s an excellent explanation.

OP things often look worse written down. They did for my reception/now year 1 son in the summer and I was worried about sending him back. Picking him up at the end of the first day he was so happy to be back at school and it was so good for him to go. Don’t worry - it will be ok.

Swipe left for the next trending thread