AIBU to wonder what 'very Catholic' means?

[Graunaile2017]

I read a comment on another thread describing parents as 'very Catholic '. I'm not from the UK so sometimes miss the nuance or underlying cultural meaning of comments like this, but it seems to imply negativity. What exactly constitutes 'very Catholic' and why is it bad?

[quote serenada]@becauseigothigh

We are all a work in progress

I can't believe I am defending the Church because I really don't think I am that religious (haven't been to Church for ages, etc) Certainly cannot make sense of the RC church after the scandals and am very interested in Judaism as the roots of the Church (and look what happened there) - I am just so disgusted at the ignorance and slurs regarding Catholicism that the internet has magnified and how we are getting this in places we never had it before.

I remember in my first year of teaching covering a lesson on stereotypes and at the end of the lesson I felt that I had 'given' the pupils stereotypes instead of having the kind of class I thought I would have (where we discussed and dismantled stereotypes in society/advertising).

It was a really powerful lesson to me on how careful you have to be with information and how some people will weaponise anything. Sadly, someone said to me recently that teh reason his community didn't really respect Catholicism is because we dont defend it in the media and we haven't really contributed anything to the modern world. This was a postgrad Classics student btw who has a frighteningly narrow view of the world shaped by his very specific upbringing.[/quote]
The church hasn’t exactly been helping itself recently, has it? It’s sad but they are their own worst enemy. What do you expect from such an ancient behemoth of an organisation, though? They were never going to be a nimble PR savvy machine.

my father came over from Tip in the late 40s with his 14 siblings. I am one of 8 myself.

I was raised in the apparently archaic way. I think that it depends upon the church. When we lived in Streatham we attended a very strict church, ornate and beautiful, but i was terrified of the sermons and had nightmares. I can vividly remember learning to feel shame in Sunday School, before the age of 7. My parents also always used guilt to punish. When we moved the church was more modern and sermons less terrifying.

When you are brought up so strictly, without the forgiveness or acceptance etc, then a lot of people will leave the church. Not necessarily because of the religion itself, but their lived experience of it.

So yes, i would pretty much say I was raised differently to how it is described by many of you now.

My father would never, even now, accept homosexuality, sex outside marriage etc. I have 3 bastards according to him and he was ashamed of his heathen brood when attending my sister's funeral.

These parents do exist and he would describe himself as very Catholic. None of his children however have stayed within the faith. So it isn't the fault of the religion, just his dogmatic way of applying it.

So I do get

@becauseigothigh would there be a place for discussion and friendship on the religion board here on mumsnet? I like chewing this kind of fat.

Sayitagainwhydontyou

The nuns at your school didn’t have teacher training? When and where did you go to school?! My gran went to convent school in the 1930s and the nuns had teacher training - joining the religious life (priest or nun) was the way pier families got educations for their children...seriously, I think you’re bullshitting us.

*poor

@Muser314

Because your comments were really offensive.

It does sound very odd.

Very Catholic: My Granny.
14 children.
Weekly confession.
Regular rosaries.
Strict observance of fasting.
Fish on Friday.
Daily mass. probably to escape all those children
Kind.

Quite Catholic: My Mother
4 children.
Weekly Mass.
Takes GC to Mass.
Sacred Heart picture.
Occasional novenas.
Nightly prayers.
Pro choice and women's rights activist.

A Bit Catholic: Me and my siblings.
Went to Catholic school.
Know the Mass. but can get tripped up by the bits Benedict changed
A couple of kids each, apart from Dsis who has 2 dogs.

Rocking Catholicism: DS1
Attends Catholic school.
Does Mass at school and Christmas.
Agnostic.
Loves Confession. He finds it the most useful sacrament.

@chickenyhead

My father would never, even now, accept homosexuality, sex outside marriage etc. I have 3 bastards according to him and he was ashamed of his heathen brood when attending my sister's funeral.

That in my mind is not Catholicism - rather dogmatism? Fundamentalism? We are suppose dto be all about forgiveness, love, peace.

And no that doesn't mean you can commit a sin, go to confession and it is all ok and you can go out and commit it again. It doesn't work like that.

@DioneTheDiabolist — haha! Yes!

@serenada for somebody who identifies with being religious you were extremely rude. I was asking questions and you labelled me ignorant and told me to "get over myself". I did nothing to deserve that. You are here talking about a relationship with oneself and yet you lash out so rudely to somebody who is not trying to argue with you. And you think other people are goady.

[quote serenada]@Muser314

Because your comments were really offensive.[/quote]
They weren't.

A few pages back some one asked if we would re think contraception when our families got too large. We use NFP and none of our families are really that large and as we are no longer spring chickens I think it is safe to say we are past the point of re thinking.

I think some of the school mums consider me very catholic because I still go to mass every Sunday despite all my children being in school now. I think for most people I know very catholic refers to something as simple as this.

To answer the OP - the way the question is asked can only mean it’s a derogatory comment, as another poster says, a devout Catholic wouldn’t refer to themselves as “very Catholic” (just as any other devotee of a faith would be unlikely to do so, I imagine).

I can attest to some other posters’ points about how Catholicism is inherently homophobic. Absolutely it was. Is it now? I’d say not necessarily but that might depend on the church. (And “very Catholic” Ireland voted for gay marriage)

I’m Irish Catholic (non-practicing now) and the church I married in had the weekly leaflet stating that everyone was welcome (specifying that LGBT (among others) were welcome), so, although a specific example, speaks to a more general movement away from the past.

Regarding sexual abuse of children- no- one Catholic condones this. Ever. The church was rotten and disgraceful in how it handled abuse (and possibly still is) but the regular believers do NOT. It seems a cheap jibe when people say this but also understandable.

I’ve never ever heard the Catholic Church say masturbation wasn’t “permissible”. (Maybe I wasn’t listening that day)

Contraception is discussed in pre-marriage courses and described as being up to the couple to decide on. Certainly it was not like that in my mum’s day (which is why I have so many siblings).

It’s an ancient religion with a very messed up history.

But anyone who says someone ELSE is “very Catholic”, it’s bound to be intended to be nasty.

as we are no longer spring chickens I think it is safe to say we are past the point of re thinking.

^^

My goodness, you are brave!

Is anybody here anglican catholic? Can they confirm to me that the official party line for the anglican catholic church is actually pretty similar but that there is no appetite to SHAME? Do they just skip the shame part and go straight to 'are you sorry?''

The difference is that the Catholic Church really goes out on a limb shaming its flock.

These are some of the things you said @Muser314

Fascinated - when I started dating I thought I wanted loads and loads of children. I scared off many a boyfriend with this talk. Turned out I was very naive because when the children arrived I realised I had a limit. I do however believe in the teachings of the church and so NFP was the option. Have had many conversations with my sisters about how much easier life would be if we didn’t believe in it 😭

Serenada, i think you are missing something to be so unpleasant to me. I don't know if you missed all the question marks. Are you actually claiming that shame was not something catholics were encouraged to feel? I must be a lot older than you.

Not sure why you were so rude to be but I will just accept I don't understand your anger and rudeness to me.

@MH1111

*I’m not anti catholic, just anti religion 😇

Children should not be taught this drivel as facts but left to made their own mind up as adults.

In fact children and religion shouldn’t mix*

Agreed.

I have to admit that the terms 'muslim child', 'christian child' etc are guaranteed to raise my hackles. The usual defence is that 'we teach our children about all religions and let them make their own minds up'. I find is bizarre then, that there's such a dearth of Christian parents raising their Shintoist biological children, Jewish families with Muslim kids etc.

@dadshere

Know much about metaphysics, do you? Want to discuss theology? Universal Church that is racist yet overwhelmingly made up of people from Africa, India and South America?

A church that says it is not a sin to be gay as opposed to Churches that say it is a sin is homophobic?

Do some proper research, why don't you?

@Krazynights34

To answer the OP - the way the question is asked can only mean it’s a derogatory comment, as another poster says, a devout Catholic wouldn’t refer to themselves as “very Catholic” (just as any other devotee of a faith would be unlikely to do so, I imagine).

I can attest to some other posters’ points about how Catholicism is inherently homophobic. Absolutely it was. Is it now? I’d say not necessarily but that might depend on the church. (And “very Catholic” Ireland voted for gay marriage)

I’m Irish Catholic (non-practicing now) and the church I married in had the weekly leaflet stating that everyone was welcome (specifying that LGBT (among others) were welcome), so, although a specific example, speaks to a more general movement away from the past.

Regarding sexual abuse of children- no- one Catholic condones this. Ever. The church was rotten and disgraceful in how it handled abuse (and possibly still is) but the regular believers do NOT. It seems a cheap jibe when people say this but also understandable.

I’ve never ever heard the Catholic Church say masturbation wasn’t “permissible”. (Maybe I wasn’t listening that day)

Contraception is discussed in pre-marriage courses and described as being up to the couple to decide on. Certainly it was not like that in my mum’s day (which is why I have so many siblings).

It’s an ancient religion with a very messed up history.

But anyone who says someone ELSE is “very Catholic”, it’s bound to be intended to be nasty.

I have actually posted and explained why I said what I did - and apologised . It wasn’t a jab at Catholicism but more a relative of mine . We have always used it as a way of explaining things that aren’t really anything to do with the church at all . Have apologised up thread and realised there are far better ways of explaining things and understanding someone’s behaviour ! I wasn’t trying to be nasty at all . Although I can absolutely 100% see why it comes across that way - and for that I sincerely apologise .

@DioneTheDiabolist

Very Catholic: My Granny. 14 children. Weekly confession. Regular rosaries. Strict observance of fasting. Fish on Friday. Daily mass. probably to escape all those children Kind.

Quite Catholic: My Mother
4 children.
Weekly Mass.
Takes GC to Mass.
Sacred Heart picture.
Occasional novenas.
Nightly prayers.
Pro choice and women's rights activist.

A Bit Catholic: Me and my siblings.
Went to Catholic school.
Know the Mass. but can get tripped up by the bits Benedict changed
A couple of kids each, apart from Dsis who has 2 dogs.

Rocking Catholicism: DS1
Attends Catholic school.
Does Mass at school and Christmas.
Agnostic.
Loves Confession. He finds it the most useful sacrament.

I like this. Especially the kind bit. I've met some arseholes of religious zealots but the vast majority of religious people I've met who would just like to practice their faith without imposing it on others have been exceptionally kind, warm hearted people who are happy to agree to disagree with me.

I am a practising Catholic, I go to mass every Sunday, my daughter and sons have been baptized etc. That doesn’t mean that I don’t recognize the faults and downright cruelty the church inflicted on vulnerable children.
I love my faith, I agree with some doctrines but not others but I enjoy being part of a church. When I lived abroad and couldn’t access a Catholic Church I used to attend an Anglican one and loved the community there.
As far as I’m concerned a lot of Catholics nowadays are shredding the awful ‘this way or no way’ concept. I have a big family and lots of cousins and the majority of us are very flexible in our tolerance and acceptance of others. We have lots of non catholic friends around us that we love dearly. I think the old days of the C church have changed, well definately where I am. My parents went to boarding schools run by religious orders and were treated like crap, the whole system was utterly deranged but yet it was seen as the done thing.
It’s a huge issue that still has not even begun to be addressed worldwide but I still stand by my faith.
I can see it and still see it’s wrongs.