AIBU to wonder what 'very Catholic' means?

[Graunaile2017]

I read a comment on another thread describing parents as 'very Catholic '. I'm not from the UK so sometimes miss the nuance or underlying cultural meaning of comments like this, but it seems to imply negativity. What exactly constitutes 'very Catholic' and why is it bad?

Sorry, that's quite long, isn't it.

There is no such thing as 'Catholic high church'. Or 'high church Catholic'.

This is a CoE and to a much lesser extent a CoI thing.

There is some very powerful philosophy and spiritual aid in things like the Daily Examen, all very personal, and very very different from the pious recitations of rosaries and adoration of statues. Catholic thought is extremely varied when you actually look into it.

@CaptainCorellisPangolin

We must be related. I agree with your 3 types completely.

Also, the Gaeltacht men had a particularly tough time in London as my Dad tells it - 'life on the tools' we call it . Lots of stories.

"Just for accuracy, homosexuality in itself is not a sin. It is fine to love anyone, in fact it’s encouraged. It is the physical enactment of love outside of marriage that is considered sinful whether that be homosexual love or heterosexual love."

Then this differs from Protestant understanding because in the Bible there are, I believe, a few references to homosexuality condemning it as a practice that are not just to do with sex outside marriage.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_homosexuality

@CaptainCorellisPangolin

Sorry, that's quite long, isn't it.

I identify very much with what you say and it is nice to hear someone summarise it as well as you do.

@fascinated

There is some very powerful philosophy and spiritual aid in things like the Daily Examen, all very personal, and very very different from the pious recitations of rosaries and adoration of statues. Catholic thought is extremely varied when you actually look into it.

I keep looking at all of the things secularists do to achieve inner peace, etc and I think isn't that the the same as....

I get why others wouldnt want to follow something so steeped in a specific tradition but I cannot help thinking that catholicism = universal and it is just the umbrella term for eveything in human experience. The rituals and practice are there to go alongside and help us deal with the world as it actually is, not how we would like it to be or a sanitised version of it. There is a lot more honesty, shooting from the hip and integrity in RC than in much outside of it, I think.

"I was taught in RE that Catholics believe the Eucharist wafer and wine are 'literally' turned into the blood and body of Christ whereas Protestants understand they are representative only ?"

Yes, transubstantiation. A huge deal for people hundreds of years ago.

www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justin-taylor/how-a-16-year-old-girl-explained-the-sacraments-to-a-catholic-interrogator-in-1554/

@serenada

To keep your head down and do as you’re told without question, because you might go to hell for eternity .

I don't think that is Christianity, that's my point. That was a kind of cultural Catholicism, I think. My parents had the same and it absolutely was a way of ruing society and used the fear of God to do it. Absolutely wrong, imv.

And your sexuality is your business. If you believe in God it is between you and her

Yes - that makes a lot of sense thank you !!

I’m sitting here a bit between mortified and quite interested . I can see the way I said ‘very catholic’ can be taken in lots of different - negative - ways . It wasn’t totally meant to come across that way .

In all honesty I went to Mass every Sunday since birth; and weekday ones, and even catholic union at uni, and all sorts . Even cleaned the church at one stage, I was on a rota for it age 13 or 14, and did the readings most Sunday’s from age 10 or so (lucky parishioners - or not - , I’m not sure how that came about !!) . I had/have very good friends within the church and I know my grandmother certainly does, it’s her entire life and identity . Much of her actions are from her personality and much of that stems from her upbringing . In every way possible it was hugely different to mine .

It has all gotten a bit mixed up in my head with other emotions and sometimes you just look for other things to blame especially when you’re feeling low and alone .

I hope that makes sense ! I feel I should really apologise because I do feel quite guilty, change the word catholic for something else and that would kind of prove my point that it’s not a good way to describe someone .

However - this has hugely helped my mum and I talk a bit about stuff, and feelings towards religion and that’s an important conversation ... never know, perhaps one day I’ll be able to have the same with my gran (hmm; maybe !) ...

It is not a sin to be gay in RC. Absolutely not a sin. It is the physical act outside of the sacrament of marriage that is condemned (and that was originally to ensure that titles, etc were inherited by offspring and then to protect women from being abandoned with children and no claim on the man's assets as well.)

I think it is never possible to “stop” being a Catholic, because it is like a cultural signifier (at least the way we were brought up in the 80s/90s). I sometimes wonder if it is like being Jewish, as much a culture as a religion. It’s certainly interesting and I love the fact that I can go into an RC church in pretty much any country in the world and know the score, feel I belong.

@serenada

The difference is that the Catholic Church really goes out on a limb shaming its flock.

@Muser314

No, it doesn't. Get over your own ignorance.

Not sure that I understand your position. The Anglican Catholic church from what I can gather has the same ''rules'' when you get down to it, so what is the difference? Transubstantiation but we all know it's not really that. It's something to do with the pressure put on people to obey. So not sure that you get to call me ignorant.

[quote serenada]@fascinated

There is some very powerful philosophy and spiritual aid in things like the Daily Examen, all very personal, and very very different from the pious recitations of rosaries and adoration of statues. Catholic thought is extremely varied when you actually look into it.

I keep looking at all of the things secularists do to achieve inner peace, etc and I think isn't that the the same as....

I get why others wouldnt want to follow something so steeped in a specific tradition but I cannot help thinking that catholicism = universal and it is just the umbrella term for eveything in human experience. The rituals and practice are there to go alongside and help us deal with the world as it actually is, not how we would like it to be or a sanitised version of it. There is a lot more honesty, shooting from the hip and integrity in RC than in much outside of it, I think.[/quote]
I’ve often wondered about that, too.

I’m sure there’s a phD in there! Common themes in all world religions and mindfulness / self help methods!

It’s the cult of the individual now. Everyone wants to feel they are in control, not being told what to do by their parents or birth culture.

@muser314 I've never felt pressure to obey.

@serenda I was very clear that I was looking at the distinction between Catholicism and other denominations - I hadn't forgotten the Christianity, the whole post was referenced inside of it! So hopefully you are able to calm down.

Catholic Christianity is hugely different from Protestant Christianity. But Catholics seem to want to discount all the bits that make their denomination distinctive.
Eg
Catholic preach that authority comes from the Pope (as authority passed down from Simon Peter) and then from priests. Protestant churches put a lot heavier
emphasis on the Bible and on direct revelation (of God through nature and lived experience). (And Anglicanism is of course a mish-mash). Protestant Christianity encourages clergy to 'live in the world' ie marry and have kids. Catholicism of course does not. But... Catholics don't respect the doctrines from the Pope, most are pretty apologetic about the AIDS epidemic that could have been prevented by an earlier promotion of condoms. The priests who father children are probably numerically low, but those stories stay in people's brains better than the ones that don't.

So in answer to OP the term very Catholic is necessary to identify those who actually follow most of the teachings of the Pope, rather than the standard Catholics who go to Mass 'to pay the insurance' (don't worry @serenada that's not from a Protestant minister, it's from my Catholic Grandad. To my best recollection he wasn't Very Catholic but his wife, my Gran was).

I like „Pay the Insurance“.

Lots of agnostics at Mass just not quite brave (or foolhardy) enough ....?!

@becauseigothigh

We are all a work in progress

I can't believe I am defending the Church because I really don't think I am that religious (haven't been to Church for ages, etc) Certainly cannot make sense of the RC church after the scandals and am very interested in Judaism as the roots of the Church (and look what happened there) - I am just so disgusted at the ignorance and slurs regarding Catholicism that the internet has magnified and how we are getting this in places we never had it before.

I remember in my first year of teaching covering a lesson on stereotypes and at the end of the lesson I felt that I had 'given' the pupils stereotypes instead of having the kind of class I thought I would have (where we discussed and dismantled stereotypes in society/advertising).

It was a really powerful lesson to me on how careful you have to be with information and how some people will weaponise anything. Sadly, someone said to me recently that teh reason his community didn't really respect Catholicism is because we dont defend it in the media and we haven't really contributed anything to the modern world. This was a postgrad Classics student btw who has a frighteningly narrow view of the world shaped by his very specific upbringing.

Guilt, self loathing and being judgemental.

@serenada

It is not a sin to be gay in RC. Absolutely not a sin. It is the physical act outside of the sacrament of marriage that is condemned (and that was originally to ensure that titles, etc were inherited by offspring and then to protect women from being abandoned with children and no claim on the man's assets as well.)

It was the only reason I stopped going, because I felt I shouldn’t, I’d be lying with baptismal promises etc ... and there’s no one you can really talk to in the church (well, that I know of) for advice . Our congregation were largely elderly couples, plus two of the local GPs . Not many families or younger people .

Two male friends did the same, both wanted to train as priests - then realised they were gay . One’s married to a man now and the other a bodybuilder . Don’t think either still go to mass !

I often wish I felt comfortable talking to a priest about it; even looking around my bedroom I have lots of wee things given for communion/confirmation so it’s very important to me - just don’t know how to make it all fit together .

@Love51

I am not going to argue with you - I'm too tired but this is unnecessary

' So hopefully you are able to calm down. '

The point is not that some Catholics are n't big on the doctrine rather that the faith is Christ centred - the doctrine is a framework for the faith lived in a community, a family, outside of one 's direct relationship with God - which should be the first thing. You and your hotline to God.

The rest is designed to protect that in each individual and guidelines for how, as societies we can achieve that.

But I am out for the night now - I suspect I will get cross when/if someone says something deliberately goady.

Very Catholic also has a secular meaning - it means has varied tastes/interests.

@becauseigothigh

There is some irony there because that is exactly what the Church/priest should be for - to provide emotional support for you whilst you think things through.

Something has gonbe very wrong. We have lost sight of the human right to be frail and broken - we don't have to be perfect and the Church is a place that we are meant to be able to show that.

Sometimes you just need a sounding board to think things through. For teh record, we have a close family member who is gay and teh wider and immediate family have no issue at all - to our surprise in a way. I think you have to get it clear in your rleationship with yourself first - after all I think that is what religion is about, too - on'e 's relationship with one self.

@serenada such as calling somebody ignorant and telling them to get over themself. Lovely indeed. Good night.

[quote serenada]@becauseigothigh

We are all a work in progress

I can't believe I am defending the Church because I really don't think I am that religious (haven't been to Church for ages, etc) Certainly cannot make sense of the RC church after the scandals and am very interested in Judaism as the roots of the Church (and look what happened there) - I am just so disgusted at the ignorance and slurs regarding Catholicism that the internet has magnified and how we are getting this in places we never had it before.

I remember in my first year of teaching covering a lesson on stereotypes and at the end of the lesson I felt that I had 'given' the pupils stereotypes instead of having the kind of class I thought I would have (where we discussed and dismantled stereotypes in society/advertising).

It was a really powerful lesson to me on how careful you have to be with information and how some people will weaponise anything. Sadly, someone said to me recently that teh reason his community didn't really respect Catholicism is because we dont defend it in the media and we haven't really contributed anything to the modern world. This was a postgrad Classics student btw who has a frighteningly narrow view of the world shaped by his very specific upbringing.[/quote]
Yes I think you’re quite right; re Catholicism not really having a voice in the media or being defended as such . It’s almost as if some people would rather hide it, I’m not sure .

I do remember moving from NE coast of Scotland to the centre of Glasgow and being utterly astonished at the sheer volume of catholic schools, churches, and acceptance . Where I grew up hardly anyone went to a Catholic Church and those that did stuck very close together, it was all about the Plymouth Brethryn, Assemblies of God and Jehovah’s Witness ... a wee town heaving with Christianity in dozens of forms but very little of that was Catholicism .

Even television - I think the only examples I’ve seen would be Father Ted and Derry Girls in recent years ... or the Magdalene Sisters/Angela’s Ashes .

I’ve really enjoyed reading parts of this thread somehow - so much to think about that I’ve not thought about positively in a long time iyswim .