to worry about giving up my job to be sahm

[allthemteeth]

First time mom. DD is 7 months old.

I'm due to return to work at the start of March 21.

I always thought I would go back to work and DD would go to a nursery, but now she's here my feelings have completely changed.

I couldn't imagine going to work all day and leaving her. I hate the thought of not seeing her all day and missing out seeing her grow and develop.

I've not been overly happy in my job for a while now, I've stayed because although I'm only on an average salary, I have the benefit of a company car.

DH has a much higher salary and also has a company car so we could quite comfortably manage without my wage.

The issue is, I've never not had a job.
I've always worked full time and I worry about giving up this independence.
We've always had joint money so it's not as if I will have to ask DH for money or tell him what I spend etc, but not contributing anything to the "pot" just makes me feel uneasy.

I also worry about the social side of not working. I do really like the people I work with and I think I'd miss not being around other adults every day.

It's not really an option for me to go back
part time. My wage would reduce dramatically and I'd pretty much be going to work just to cover nursery fees.

I know I want to leave my job and stay at home with DD but there's just this feeling of losing myself or my independence for doing it.

Has anyone else given up a job? Am I
making the right decision?

Should say parents own their houses outright

I don’t think many men would want to be house husbands, no. My DH is very open about the fact he wouldn’t have the patience. But just because men probably don’t want something, doesn’t mean women should feel bad, judged or somehow “wrong” for being happy with it. I don’t compare myself to men in the first place really. Why would I? I’m more interested in being honest with myself and accepting that everyone has different motivations, make or female.

@SerenDippitty

But men do have all of these options. They, too, can give up their jobs, stay at home and make themselves completely financially dependent on their wives. It's just that very few of them seem to want it.

Let's be honest, how many wives would want their husbands completely financially dependent on them?

Good point. Men Don’t really have all those options I think it’s in recent years MAT deals have become a lot better even for women. Are men entitled to 9 months of Mat leave now paid? It’s a deep rooted issue women are generally automatically known to be the person to adjust their working pattern without question.

Congratulations on your beautiful baby OP!

I think it depends on you/your family situation. It wouldn't suit everyone. I stayed at home and although I don't regret it for a second, I'm very much an introvert. Although I know some SAHMs who are extroverted and have very active social lives so it is possible.

You do what you feel is right.

Are men entitled to 9 months of Mat leave now paid?

they are in more enlightened countries though… and to be fair, a lot more of them are taking it up

@Brefugee thanks I was just asking just in case it had changed. It’s not impossible but it’s very unusual for a women to be supporting a man and the women is expected to be the bread winner. I suspect the man may feel more insecure compared to a SAHM.

Are men entitled to 9 months of Mat leave now paid?

DHs firm offer 3 months full paid which would be unheard of a decade ago

Let's be honest, how many wives would want their husbands completely financially dependent on them?

Unless it was not through choice ie ill health, not a chance. That's a pressure I never, ever want, and in honesty I would lose a lot of respect for him if he expected that of me.

Backtobasics5

But men do have the option to take more paternity leave, to reduce their hours, to ask for more leave, to leave work early or to be excluded from team building drinks etc. But they don't take it up.

Whether that's fear of compromising their careers, or latent machismo or whatever it is, its absolutely still regarded as unusual for a man to make those sorts of sacrifices.

I dare say its difficult and there is still a lot of taboo around this: in a lot of work cultures it probably takes balls to say "I have to leave an hour early every night to bathe my baby". But the reality is working women have to do this so men will have to get more comfortable with it too.

I see it all the time. I used to work with a very ambitious guy who was looking for a wife. He was extremely picky about what he wanted: she had to be supremely well-educated, beautiful, successful with a prestigious career etc. But he wanted her to be prepared to give up work as soon as she fell pregnant and be prepared to raise the kids as a SAHM while he "focused on his career" (which to a large extent meant working 10 hour days and then drinking until the small hours with work contacts).

I pointed out to him that the sort of woman he wanted was by definition very unlikely to be happy to drop her career just like that and raise his babies indefinitely while he went on the lash every night with bankers and he would have to make some accommodation of his lifestyle for her career as well. He was completely nonplussed at this suggestion.

They still just don't get it.

Be honest, how many women on here can say they would have been happy to return to work a couple of weeks after having a baby and just leave the baby with their DH and he would have just taken to it instinctively? Really? I think it’s naive to argue that its same decision for men and women.

Unless it was not through choice ie ill health, not a chance. That's a pressure I never, ever want, and in honesty I would lose a lot of respect for him if he expected that of me.

I feel the same.

But men do have all of these options. They, too, can give up their jobs, stay at home and make themselves completely financially dependent on their wives. It's just that very few of them seem to want it
Not only would most women not want a dependent husband (although this is becoming more common) the main issue is the logic that the one with the lowest income should be at home.

@Custardandoldsocks, the difficulty is we never know what the future will bring us. I opted to continue working and I'm so glad I did because I never ever envisaged that I would suffer from early menopause and that it would cause havoc with my health and lead me to suffer from chronic insomnia leaving me counting the years to early retirement. I idea that I would have to work until 65 or more didn't bother me when I was 35. The idea would now send me into depression.

At the sane time, of one of my child had been diagnosed with a terminal illness, I would probably have never forgiven myself for not making the most of my time with them when little.

The problem is we can't see our future so we have to make decisions and assume them. However, I think too many do this my looking at the present benefits ignoring the future and then cry about unfairness when they don't have the same options later in life than those who made different decisions then.

Yet again, we are fighting the wrong target. To put it very bluntly, and in full awareness that I sound like a scary feminist, we need to stop being angry at one another and start being angry with men.

I agree with this. Until women simply stop allowing their partners not to step up, a lot of them won’t. Sadly I think enough women want to have babies strongly enough that they wouldn’t ever refuse to have them without the men meeting them halfway. So men continue to hold all the cards as if a woman said ‘well I’ll only have our babies if you do x, y and z’ they would simply say ok let’s not have kids or ok I’ll go and have them with someone else who doesn’t ask this of me.

As I’ve said before on this thread, my DH and I both work four days and share childcare, nursery runs and everything equally. This was our plan which we made as soon as talk turned to babies and have stuck to.

If a couple decide they want to have kids they need to talk all the practicalities through and make sure they’re on the same page before even getting pregnant. Women need to face the harsh reality that we can’t have it all. Most women seem to want more than men to have less time working and more time with their kids. If they go part time as a result they need to own that. If they want to remain on an even footing with their partners career wise they need to accept they will miss out on time with their kids.

People are asking why men aren’t having these debates. I think it’s honestly because most men are fine with working full time and not having that time with their children and many women are not. I also think that a lot of men don’t really want their kids in full time childcare. So until women are saying well if you work full time then so do I, more men won’t contemplate reducing hours because there is an assumption on both sides that the woman will do it.

I’m not making my point very clearly but what I mean is that men don’t agonise over this because mainly they don’t want to be part time and if they don’t want their kids in full time childcare there is a woman there willing to work less to facilitate that. Men will only have tough choices to make when women are saying no and prioritising their work the way most men do.

A lot of women want to have it all and can’t accept that isn’t possible. Men have it easier because they’re not trying to have it all because most of them don’t actually want to do any childcare in the week. My husband genuinely does which is why our arrangement works brilliantly and our family has thrived. But I’m depressingly aware that he is a minority. I would LOVE to see our arrangement become more of a norm and I can’t hand on heart say the reason isn’t is because of men. Most of the time my mum friends are saying they don’t want to give up their precious mat leave or spend as many as four days away from their kids at work. So of course a career hit results.

Not only would most women not want a dependent husband (although this is becoming more common) the main issue is the logic that the one with the lowest income should be at home.

But on average women earn as much, if not more, than men up until the time they have children.

Unless it was not through choice ie ill health, not a chance. That's a pressure I never, ever want, and in honesty I would lose a lot of respect for him if he expected that of me
So the option is go with what you want or lose your respect.

And yet women constant moan about inequality and men being controlling. Should all men whose wife is insisting she wants to be supported by him 100% lose respect in her?

But men do have the option to take more paternity leave, to reduce their hours, to ask for more leave, to leave work early or to be excluded from team building drinks etc. But they don't take it up.

Whether that's fear of compromising their careers, or latent machismo or whatever it is, its absolutely still regarded as unusual for a man to make those sorts of sacrifices.

I used to think that this was entirely due to men being unwilling to step up. Then we did shared parental leave and lots of men I knew told me that they'd have liked to do it too but their partner would never have gone for it - I still assumed that this was a bit of a line, and they wouldn't actually want to. Then almost every woman I know (and I've seen this again and again on MN, too) said that they would never give up 'their leave' like that, that they hated the idea of them working while their DP 'got to' stay home, and I had to start actually listening to them and realising that, actually, most women aren't like me and most really don't, when it comes down to it, want a partner who is an equal parent if that means compromise on what they themselves want (long maternity leave, to go part-time, etc.). DH and I both work four days a week now and, again, a lot of women (no men, a lot of women) have said it's a shame that I have to work 'so much' and have made it clear that DH working full-time and me three days would be a much better and more 'normal' arrangement.

But on average women earn as much, if not more, than men up until the time they have children
Do they? That's interesting. Any reference to that fact?

Let's be honest, how many wives would want their husbands completely financially dependent on them?

We're not talking about "completely financially dependent" though. I agree: I can't think of anything worse than having a man totally dependent on you.

But there's a huge spectrum between "completely financially dependent" and somewhat reduced hours.

Its possible for men to scale back their hours, to leave on time, to not go for that promotion, to not have to go out drinking with partners every night. And most of them won't or claim they can't do that.

I get that there's more expectation on men to do some of these things than there is women, but I still think they just aren't trying hard enough. We've made the adjustment, why can't they?

we need to stop being angry at one another and start being angry with men.

Aw, music to my ears. I hear some women and they haven't moved from the 50's. Moan about losing out to men, but marry a useless one who doesn't want an equal relationship, then they give up their career because he can earn more, and blame everyone else apart from their poor relationship and choice.

According to most SAHMs on here, they’re not financially dependent on their husbands, they are facilitating his career and enabling him to earn. Does the same not apply if the woman is at work and the man at home? All those saying they wouldn’t respect a man who depended on their income, presumably don’t see any value in the role he would be playing in supporting the woman’s career. Seems ironic!

Hardbackwriter I think a lot of men and women do still have a mental template that says the woman may work but she shouldn't be the primary breadwinner, yes.

I think society has normalised the idea of mothers working to some extent but we're a long way from an expectation of true gender balance in relationships.

I suppose in most marriages/partnerships one person will default to the "primary breadwinner" role and the other will default to the "primary carer" role. And then once that role is established the breadwinner has more leeway to say "I can't miss drinks with the partners because I will get passed over for promotion" etc etc. And, surprise surprise, in the majority of cases that person will be the man.

I suppose I see this in a very black and white way because I'm a single parent so the idea of having to pander to a man's sense of wounded pride about not being the most economically important family participant just doesn't enter the equation for me.

But I really think we won't ever get true equality until men are made to face up to the the fact that their career can't always be more important by default just because they have been the primary breadwinner.

Its possible for men to scale back their hours, to leave on time, to not go for that promotion, to not have to go out drinking with partners every night. And most of them won't or claim they can't do that.

Absolutely it is - DH, as I said, doesn't work full-time, has actively chosen not to go down a leadership route at work and is very picky about what he does outside his core work in terms of activities that could go into the evening or weekend. We're very sure that's the right choice for us a family BUT it does mean that I don't have a choice to not work, or even to have a low-paid but low hours job. These are options that a lot of women would be very unhappy to give up, and in practice that does make it hard for men to decide to take a step back in that way. You can't take the foot off the pedal if you're the only earner or bring in the lion's share of family income and again both my own anecdotal experience and what actually happens in most families suggests that a lot of women want their partner to be the sole or main earner to give themselves a lot more choices about work.

@Hardbackwriter has said exactly what I was trying to, much more succinctly! Until more women are honest about what they actually want, and are willing to own the consequences of that, nothing will change. I love my husband doing his day a week of childcare and I love working four days, wouldn’t want to do less. But I know a lot of my mum friends would resent working for a day while their husband is having fun with the kids. For me it’s the best day of my working week as I’m so relaxed knowing they’re with their dad and love getting photos etc from him. But it’s clear from things friends say that I’m a minority.

I suppose I see this in a very black and white way because I'm a single parent so the idea of having to pander to a man's sense of wounded pride about not being the most economically important family participant just doesn't enter the equation for me.

But I don't think it is all about catering to men's egos, much as part of me would like to say it is. I used to believe that most women wanted liberated careers and equality but actually, I'm not sure that's true, I think that was me projecting what I want onto other people.

@dontdisturbmenow

But on average women earn as much, if not more, than men up until the time they have children Do they? That's interesting. Any reference to that fact?

5 years old, and doesn't specifically reference having children, but the ages would seem to line up with that.

www.theguardian.com/money/2015/aug/29/women-in-20s-earn-more-men-same-age-study-finds