Debate with friend about schools opening. Who was unreasonable?

[Freyaaaaaa]

I just got back from a walk with my friend. She is a secondary school teacher, I work as a HLTA in a primary school.

Friend thinks it's too early for schools to open and that she hopes they close again by October.
I said it's been long enough and children need an education. That will be almost a year off school which for many children will be absurd!
She thinks that schools opening just won't work and that she agrees almost a year off is bad but at the same time health is more important.
My opinion is yes health is important but we can't mess up our children's educations! And being in school one minute then closed again will do more harm than good.

The debate got quite heated as I said plenty of other people are managing to be back at work and so should we,
But apparantly I was being small-minded.
We changed conversations but things still seemed quite tense.

Neither of you was unreasonable, you just disagreed.

you're going to get eleventy billion different answers here but as a secondary teacher and parent of tweens I want all of us back ASAP. The virus in the UK is at 21/100,000 yesterday I believe. With good hygenie and cleaning (bubbles are a nonsense in schools because siblings instantly break them when they go home) and the low community transmission rate, there is no reason not to get back and stay back so long as rates do not skyrocket. Also I was reading in the Times today that the virus seems now to be infecting younger adults but far far more mildy and / or asymptomatically. A balance must be struck to live with this.

Neither. I'm a secondary teacher and can see both sides.

The only problem is the nonsense same time health is more important, since health for many will be considerably better going to school.

Health like safe does not mean "not having COVID".

But unreasonableness is nothing to do with opinions, you just have different ones.

Kind of Irrelevant tbh Leicester schools are opening next week.... schools will open, think the debate needs to stop and we are just going to have to see what happens with the measures in place.

Personally I can’t see how people think it’s ok for pubs to be open, holidays to happen, shops to open and yet argue our kids can’t go back to school. I can guarantee they have been doing some of those things and not sitting in all the time since lockdown but for some reason schools can’t open. Blah!

No one knows what will happen so neither of you can be unreasonable.

If you want to know what people think might happen go to the coronavirus board where every other thread is about schools reopening.

Both have valid points. You were both unreasonable if you can't have an adult conversation about important issues , accepting people have different view points, without it becoming heated.

There's no perfect solution to this so of course there will be differing views.

YABU for thinking someone is being unreasonable any time two people have different opinions.

Well it depends. Primary and secondary are very different- and primary are far easier to open with meaningful bubbles and tend to be smaller overall. Secondaries are more difficult.
Also, were you having a hypothetical argument (ie it can't be made safe to open schools versus it can be with extra cleaning, good track and trace, etc etc) or an argument about what's really happening in secondaries (no masks, no distancing, no meaningful bubbles, no extra funding for more cleaning or supply teachers, no proof of negative tests needed for symptomatic children and a pathetic track and trace system). Because the answer is quite different...
If it's 'schools, primary and secondary can be made safe to open with measures specific to the type of school and necessary funding' then I'd agree. If it's 'schools, including secondaries, will be safe with current government guidance and levels of support in September' then the answer from me is a resounding no.

I think she is unreasonable for "hoping" for schools to close and it is that sort of attitude which makes people on here feel so hugely frustrated with teachers since this all started.

I can of course understand some nervousness around the return to schools for teachers, especially secondary. But I do think we should wait and see what happens.

Why does one of you have to be unreasonable? You’ve got different opinions.

The way it’s going to work in primary and secondary is completely different.

I think the kids need to go back but let's not pretend 200+ year group "bubbles" are going to make any difference

I think we can all agree that kids missing more and more and yet more school is a Bad Thing. But I wish more people - particularly those in a position of political power or influence - were like your friend and acknowledged that in order to safeguard health, schools will probably have to close again, or indeed may not open as normal in September. If so many people were not in denial about that, we could start to have an adult national conversation about how education might be restructured for the next year or two, for instance involving online teaching, forms of social and emotional outreach from schools to individual pupils, adequate social support for vulnerable pupils, infrastructural support for families in poverty who have a child missing school, and much more. Just saying 'Schools must open and stay open in September' when we all know it might not work out that way is shortsighted imo.

I think primary and secondary are different. Primary absolutely need to go back full time, they're usually smaller and easier to maintain distancing.

Secondary I can see an argument for doing blended learning and students wearing masks but I don't think school should be shut completely to them.

The virus is here and there is very little that we can do to alter that fact now, sadly. I think that we now need to learn to live with it and that means going back to work and children returning to school. I know that this is difficult, but I cannot see that it is anymore difficult than the prospect of the poverty and suffering that economic decline brings.

Personally, I agree with you. Children need to get back to school for their social, emotional and educational wellbeing. It's been a real struggle for many over lockdown.

I work in a secondary school - not in a teacher role - and I can't wait to get back. I've actually missed the little sods.

But neither were being unreasonable, you just had a difference of opinion.

I want schools to go back. I want to get back to work. But at the same time I think open then close would be worse than opening later. I'd like the government to carefully look at what has happened/does happen in Scotland and use this to decide if it's safe to open schools.

@ConquestEmpireHungerPlague schools can't be restructured to online schooling without affecting working parents, with the most likely to be affected being the mothers, especially single mums

She was being U not you. Why on earth would a teacher “ hope” schools will close again in October? That comes across as really defeatist and quite lazy. I’m not saying this about other teachers.. but in the instance you describe it certainly sounds that way.

ETA all the teachers I know are keen to get back!

Confused by the almost a year off school bit. I think wishing schools closed is a very unusual standpoint by any teachers, I actually do not know a single one wanting that. Interesting. Most teachers have missed teaching and just want the opportunity to do it safely.

All my argument is that it's fair enough closing schools and carrying on with this online schooling and all i said to her was it's easy for her to say she "hopes" schools close when she has a secure job that she knows she will get paid even if lockdown happens again,
but that doesn't come without consequences, hence my opinion is there will be lots of single mums struggling to work and if they have partners, mothers will be more likely to give up or reduce their hours than the fathers

@mummag for many children, schools have been shut since March, and yes online materials have been given for parents to help the children with but this is in no way the same as being in actual school,

So yes this year as in 2020 - they have been in Januray, February and some of March,
If they are then just back in September with the hope schools are closed by October that is a significant part of education lost in 2020

I think anyone who "hopes" schools close again is being insanely unreasonable. I was discussing it all with a secondary school teacher friend recently and her take on it was that the kids just need to be back now.