Debate with friend about schools opening. Who was unreasonable?

[Freyaaaaaa]

I just got back from a walk with my friend. She is a secondary school teacher, I work as a HLTA in a primary school.

Friend thinks it's too early for schools to open and that she hopes they close again by October.
I said it's been long enough and children need an education. That will be almost a year off school which for many children will be absurd!
She thinks that schools opening just won't work and that she agrees almost a year off is bad but at the same time health is more important.
My opinion is yes health is important but we can't mess up our children's educations! And being in school one minute then closed again will do more harm than good.

The debate got quite heated as I said plenty of other people are managing to be back at work and so should we,
But apparantly I was being small-minded.
We changed conversations but things still seemed quite tense.

As an HTLA, you ought to know there is no solution for the shielded, OP.

Schools will open and then close again pretty quickly. It’s going to be chaos!

Trying to teach exclusively online was horrible and incredibly stressful, all kids will benefit from getting back to school. However, the whole thing with secondaries is that they are pretty much back to normal so Covid will spread and education will be disrupted. We'd be better planning so that we had a system in place from the start to reduce spread

Primary staff don’t get to tell secondary staff how they should feel about going back.

Not a good friend.

I'm beginning to think the most unreasonable thing is to have described your conversation as a debate, OP, when it's clear you aren't interested in anything except forcing your own viewpoint on others and deliberately misunderstanding their responses.

It's Saturday night. I have better things to be doing.

@lifeafter50

March /care home fiasco and they still thought ventilators were the treatment. Six months later -lots of more efficient treatment (ventilators hastened deaths-worst treatment) large part of population have antibodies and never asymptomatic, children do not die of it snd go not spread it, deaths are old people and obese people NOT the general population. This is an entirely different paradigm.

This is largely wrong.

@Piggywaspushed ayyyy? I meant the parents would probably have sorted some form of childcare/work pattern to suit their shielded child's needs, not that there is a solution for shielded people

@noblegiraffe i never told her how she should feel, I said it was unreasonable to hope schools close.

@ConquestEmpireHungerPlague i am interesred but you seem dead set on online learning when that would be chaotic for working parents, especially within the primary age-range

Plenty of my friends have been working from home and the stress they felt sorting work out and completing their children's online schooling with them would not be good in the long-term

I know what you meant OP. In other words, those children should miss out and their parents should have a magic wand. The DFE expects them back at school. I don't think you are seeing things from the point of view of secondary aged children either.

[quote Freyaaaaaa]@noblegiraffe i never told her how she should feel, I said it was unreasonable to hope schools close.[/quote]
You did by ‘debating’ her view of schools opening which will be from a secondary perspective of ‘bubbles’ of thousands and teaching practically adults.

You should have just sympathised and shut it. No wonder things were still tense. No empathy for her situation.

@Piggywaspushed i never said the children should miss out?

@noblegiraffe she also debated my views so should she also have sympathised and shut it? That's not what a debate is.

[quote Freyaaaaaa]@noblegiraffe she also debated my views so should she also have sympathised and shut it? That's not what a debate is.[/quote]
You weren’t interested in a debate though, as is clear from you continuing in the same vein here.

You aren’t in her position. You can speak for primary. Primary is a different kettle of fish.

@noblegiraffe

Primary staff don’t get to tell secondary staff how they should feel about going back.

Not a good friend.

I don't think any staff should try to tell any other staff how the should feel about it, irrespective of primary/secondary, state/independent, teacher/assistant. We're all in unique positions regarding our own set-ups, vulnerabilities, family situations, etc.

We can, of course, discuss it and try to support each other in coming to solutions but it isn't up to anyone to minimise how someone else feels. No-one knows another person's reality.

I thought neither of you were being unreasonable until it became clear that you are incapable of recognising that other people have opinions which may be as equally valid as yours, that you aren’t willing to let a disagreement drop, and that you have started this thread in order to win the argument that your friend thwarted you from winning earlier. So now I think YABU.

You mentioned childcare and shifting work patterns which implies to me keeping the clinically vulnerable children at home. If I have misunderstood, please do clarify.

I wasn't telling her how to feel? Where has this come from.
We had a debate. She debated my views. I debated hers.
I don't believe it is right to hope schools close in the same way I don't hope pubs close or restuarants close because we need our economy to get going,

@noblegiraffe you were not in our conversarion. I did not tell her how to feel just as she did not tell me how to feel.

@Piggywaspushed it's up to the parents. Some parents will be sending their shielded in, some may choose not - I don't know - but i'm sure they've sorted out or have an idea of what theyre going to do.
So yes you misunderstood

I don't think any staff should try to tell any other staff how the should feel about it, irrespective of primary/secondary, state/independent, teacher/assistant

That is very true, Iam. The obvious split here is primary/secondary but it could go for lots of different things, especially healthy/clinically vulnerable.

I think often of my vulnerable colleagues when I am trying to assess whether a risk I might be willing to take is actually reasonable for everyone it’s being imposed on.

I go back on Weds this week. On my first day I will be teaching 4 lessons + 1 hour with my form. So that's around 120 children that I'm sharing a room with on the first day. I wouldn't be super pleased if a primary staff member couldn't see my point of view. I do think schools should open, however.

@noblegiraffe you were not in our conversarion

Not convinced you were either.

But we only have your side of things anyway. Even presenting yourself in the best light you don’t come across very well.

@Tyranttoddler i didn't tell her "you have nothing to worry about" or "stop being so stupid", I told her I dont think we should be hoping for schools to close. We all have risks in life and I don't see my sister in law who deals with brain tumours hoping hospitals close

But what are they supposed to sort out? I know this is a side issue but your lack of empathy for that situation and your somewhat dismissive tone surprises me for a primary HLTA. These children either attend , and risk their health, or are kept at home and miss education. It's a horrible situation and one which the DfE provides no guidance or support for.