Debate with friend about schools opening. Who was unreasonable?

[Freyaaaaaa]

I just got back from a walk with my friend. She is a secondary school teacher, I work as a HLTA in a primary school.

Friend thinks it's too early for schools to open and that she hopes they close again by October.
I said it's been long enough and children need an education. That will be almost a year off school which for many children will be absurd!
She thinks that schools opening just won't work and that she agrees almost a year off is bad but at the same time health is more important.
My opinion is yes health is important but we can't mess up our children's educations! And being in school one minute then closed again will do more harm than good.

The debate got quite heated as I said plenty of other people are managing to be back at work and so should we,
But apparantly I was being small-minded.
We changed conversations but things still seemed quite tense.

@Piggywaspushed this is my last reply to you as you're accusing me of having a lack of empathy after one post on a forum. I adore teaching and working with the children in my school and I can't wait to go back.
I can not answer for all shielded children, it is up to the parents and i'm sure they will discuss with the school whatevers besy, and I do not believe parents should be fined for keeping their shieldee children off. That's all I will say on that subject.

[quote Freyaaaaaa]@Tyranttoddler i didn't tell her "you have nothing to worry about" or "stop being so stupid", I told her I dont think we should be hoping for schools to close. We all have risks in life and I don't see my sister in law who deals with brain tumours hoping hospitals close[/quote]
I only read your first post so was basing my comment on that, where you said she felt it was too early for schools to reopen. I get her attitude and it can feel very anxiety inducing to be facing so many people, with no protection whatsoever, when you've not seen many at all.

I'm not sure what your sister has to do with it. Of course hospitals shouldn't close and all their departments should be fully reopening.

Ah, OK, now I see how you manage debate.

@Piggywaspushed this was not a debate on shielded children which is why i'm ending that side of the debate.

@Tyranttoddler I understand her worries and anxieties too, my point was only that we shouldn't be hoping for schools to close, but hoping that deaths stay low so schools can stay open

And how will this single mom work if the school/bubble is closed down?
Bubbles are easier to maintain in primary. At secondary level not that easy. Not every secondary schooler can be left alone.

Tbh , it was solomummy who first mentioned shielding and you who offered a dismissive response to those concerns.

But fine.

Back to the topic.

You had a different perspective to your friend who doesn't believe secondary schools will be able to remain open effectively. As your knowledge of that context is limited you might want to listen and learn. And I am sure she could also learn from you.

But I believe she is right that parents, and many schoolworkers, are not prepared (physically or mentally) for how disrupted the whole thing could be.

It's strange that as someone who claims to work in a school you seem to be unaware that from September when schools return in England, children shielding is no longer.

From September in England children either attend or face a fine.

@canigooutyet which is why I don't think we should hope for schools closing,
It's easy enough for my friend or I to hope schools close as we have our pay but I know how stressed many of my working friends (some of who are single mums to yr 7s/8s) will be if it was to happen,
To me it's best to hope schools stay happen and hope for the best

@canigooutyet shielding is no longer needed but some children are still classed as vulnerable. I don't believe parents should be fined for keeping their vulnerable children home if they wish to

@Piggywaspushed I didn't have a dismissive response. I basically said the parents will be sorting that out - most parents do discuss with school and they work out between them what's best,
I don't understand why you're having a go at me about shielded children just because I said the parents will be sorting them out? I'm not some form of superhero that has the answers for everything

sister in law who deals with brain tumours

How to win a pub argument step 3: throw in a completely irrelevant but emotive comparison.

@HeddaGarbled I was just basically saying that she deals with the public everyday as do other nurses and doctors and carers but I don't see a carer say "oh I hope my elderly care home will close" because sometimes in life we have to face risk

@HeddaGarbled

sister in law who deals with brain tumours

How to win a pub argument step 3: throw in a completely irrelevant but emotive comparison.

How to try to you mean.

Like being brand new to this debate on MN but having a teacher friend say the stuff that certain groups on here have been trying to put in teachers’ mouths for months.

I will be leaving this thread now as it seems some people are completely taking things out of context, twisting things and going off topic so reply all you want but i won't be looking at or responding to this thread.

She can feel how she wants and say what she wants.

I think your maths is worryingly poor.

I'd like the government to carefully look at what has happened/does happen in Scotland and use this to decide if it's safe to open schools

Yes, sturgeon’s haste to pander to the populist “won’t somebody think of the children” and because our education system was already failing, has left our children as guinea pigs.

We’re repeatedly told how safe it is and all the steps they are along to prevent any spread of Covid. DD had been back 3 days before she came home with a cold (yes, pretty certain that’s all it is). How safe can they be from Covid if it is transmitted the same way as a cold is, and she’s picked one of those up in days?

Boris said (some months back) decisions will be governed by medical science (R) and not economic greed however there is a school of thought however that says opening pubs and restaurants and cafes etc then introducing "eat out to help out" pushing more people out on Mon/Tue/Wed therefore not spacing out these additional bookings was governed by greed

However

It's unsustainable to keep people on Furlough in-definately (so they say) but If there's another serious national lock-down then questions need to be asked

Like why were these non essential places opened when schools are put in a position whereby children's education should suffer so people can go for a drink/Meal

It's a terrible decision

Schools have, I agree been closed long enough
Out local primary (about 4 years ago following requests from working parents who said it was ridiculous) scrapped the first 4 weeks of half days as for parents working it didn't work

NOW

They've brought it back - but no solution what to do with children the parts of the day they can't accommodate them

There's a letter gone to the LEA complaining

I hope schools don't close down.

What I do hope is that parents/guardians have got their backup sorted out now.

I do hope they have looked at the guidelines and realise the policy for when a child is taken ill in school. Although I also hope that those who do this are fined tbh.

I do hope the government has pulled its out of it's arse and sorted education out. It's not going to happen though, it's been very clear education isn't relevant, it's been clear they don't want to invest.

Maybe if/when schools close like they have been doing in other places outside England, government might start paying attention. Yea I know, and pigs might fly.

Op you’re not in the wrong.

Hoping schools will close seems a bit off but I assume it’s a concern over her perceived risk.

I think this thread proves that there are lots of different perspectives on this based on different people’s situation and personal/work/family risk.

I have completely opposing views on some government decisions in the pandemic compared to my financially secure, retired parents, but we don’t fall out about it. I think it’s one of those “agree to disagree” scenarios, I assume you value this friendship more than winning the argument?

The fact is, no one knows what will happen. I personally think we have to give it a cautious go as the risk to healthy kids is minimal and there are other health, educational and social outcomes at stake, but I totally see why staff might be worried.

If it were me I’d be trying to take a conciliatory tone with my friend and move on.

@lifeafter50

March /care home fiasco and they still thought ventilators were the treatment. Six months later -lots of more efficient treatment (ventilators hastened deaths-worst treatment) large part of population have antibodies and never asymptomatic, children do not die of it snd go not spread it, deaths are old people and obese people NOT the general population. This is an entirely different paradigm.

I was morbidly obese at the start of this, am now 'just' obese (having lost close to 4 stone)- I really thought I was part of the general population despite being a bit porky...oh well

Well done monkey tennis... my chocolate and wine consumption has doubled since coronavirus happened

@PumbaasCucumbas

Well done monkey tennis... my chocolate and wine consumption has doubled since coronavirus happened

Thank you😊 I did it purely as I knew I would be at higher risk as a late 40s obese secondary school teacher. I knew in March schools were going to be Petri dishes for this thing-they are fo everything else!

large part of population have antibodies

6%. Not a large part at all.