On holiday with friend and her kids; it's not going well

[GlummyMcGlummerson]

For context, my DD (8)was diagnosed a few weeks ago with a (mild) neurological condition. As part of this she has good days and bad days - good days she’s a normal 8yo with a normal routine, bad days she get dizzy spells, nausea, headaches (usually triggered by noise or bright lights) and sleeps a lot. She’ll have a 1-2 hour nap and then 14-15 hours at night. I am essentially waiting to see if she gets over it on her own before considering treatment, on advice of her doctor.

We (me, DD and 4yo DS) are on week-long UK holiday with my friend and her kids who are the same age as mine, a couple of hours from where we live. My friend’s 8yo - lets call her Emma - is a sensitive child, always has been, my friend has discussed it with me before, but I never gave it too much thought, my own DD can certainly be sensitive. However we are now on day 4 of the holiday, and living in close quarters with them I’ve realised she’s VERY over sensitive and it’s affecting everyone’s enjoyment of the holiday, and more importantly my DD’s condition. Emma is NT.

A few examples
⁃ they were colouring the other day and Emma went slightly over the lines in her picture. She burst into tears, blamed her mum because her mum was talking to me, and cried for half an hour, chucking her paper in the bin
⁃ - they put a “play” on for us the other night and Emma jumbled up for words. She got really upset, sat on the floor sobbing with her arms folded and refused to finish the play, which annoyed DD the others as they wanted to show us.
⁃ She stubbed her toe on the sofa yesterday and had a totally OTT reaction. She grabbed her foot, rolled around on the floor and screamed the most high pitched scream I’ve ever heard, relentlessly, for 20 minutes. I had to take DD out the room as it brought on a headache. If you overheard you’d think she’d have been stabbed. Her toe was fine, no break and no bruise.
⁃ We went for a picnic yesterday and when we packed up we told the kids that they all had to carry something back and we gave Emma the (lightweight) picnic blanket to carry. After a couple of minutes of walking back to the lodge, and heard a shriek. We turned around and she was about 10m away sitting on the ground crying hysterically. She said it was because the blanket was too heavy then we all left her behind. My friend had to carry for uphill back to the lodge and she cried all the way.

It’s lots of little things all the time. As to not drip feed, my friend’s DH has said before (in front of my friend) he thinks Emma’s sensitivity is exacerbated by her mum babying her. I (secretly) agree - she carries her a lot because she “gets tired legs” - such as round the supermarket, or from a restaurant to the car, or out of someone’s house. She also apologises to her a lot where I don’t think it’s necessary - she apologised for “making” her go over the lines when colouring. She also lays with her every night til she falls asleep - singing a lullaby or scratching her back, for about 1-2 hours. Her 4yo goes to sleep alone! The last 3 nights I’ve looked forward to having a bottle of wine with my friend, but she doesn’t usually come down til 10pm from putting Emma to bed. She’s attempted making her fall asleep alone before but had little success.

Anyway DD has been quite good about Emma’s tantrums considering she hasn’t been well, and every day has been a “bad day” for her. But last night when DD started to feel sleepy around 6pm, and Emma wanted her to play a game. DD said no she just wanted to watch a bit of TV, and Emma has a strop and told her mum that DD was a “bad friend”. At that point DD burst into tears and said to me, in front of Emma, that this is a rubbish holiday and Emma is ruining it 😬 well, merry hell broke loose and I took DD to bed to try and diffuse the situation.

Me and my friend had a bottle of wine and a bit of a grumble last night about it all, she said she has a daily struggle with Emma being so sensitive and her DH goes out the house for hours at a time to sit in a car park because he can’t stand the noise.

When I woke DD up today she said that she feels sick all the time and wants to go home . TBH I feel the same way, I’m sick of the shrieking and whilst I feel sorry for my friend it’s making it an unenjoyable holiday.

I figure I have 4 options:
1. Go home - say DD just isn’t well enough (DS is very chilled out and likely wouldn’t mind this but I’m loathe to cut his holiday short)
2. Tell my friend how Emma’s behaviour is affecting DD and ask her to speak to her or step in before it escalates
3. Do more as a family of three separately from the other family and maybe just meet them for dinner
4. Say nothing, they’re kids and will get over it
WWYD?

‘isn’t’ being taught

I would do 3, there is no reason to go home I don't think

So much information on here about this child, your friend, your friend’s DH, their relationship, past events, specific details about incidents on the holiday, plans and places for Monday/Tuesday...

I really hope your friend isn’t on MN!

As for going home. I don’t blame you at all. You did the right thing.

I really hope your friend isn’t on MN!

I often think of this too! Especially when I give too much away then worry someone in RL will read. How do people not worry about this? Glad it’s not just me

An over indulged child, who has been pandered to, and have had every need met by their parent for the majority of their life - is going to ‘freak out’ over even the most minor incident because they haven’t been taught emotional resilience - or how to handle negativity. Yet they are labelled as over sensitive with potential ASD. How is that fair on the child?

Overdiagnosis of ASD is an issue - particularly with milder symptoms. It’s presentation is based on a subjective diagnosis on behaviours that are present in most children to some degree.

actually Trunkella in this country children are under diagnosed, its the US where over diagnosis is a problem.

Option 3
You're on holiday, go out and have some family time together for a break. Return when DD needs a sleep during the day only, otherwise return for tea. Tire expectations were too high for the DCs to spend so much time together. Let alone with extra stresses from specific needs

Dfriend's DD has emotional and behavioural difficulties . We don't know the cause, but that's how her to best describe her behaviour. It'd be interesting to know if it presents at school as well as home - her Mum may want to chat to school about " if they find her over sensitive too", Her mum may also need to start using more accurate descriptors, when she realises that her DD may actually need some help (whatever the cause).

No matter how noisy and annoying screaming in a tantrum is to others, (and Something is driving this girls behaviour), it's extremely distressing for the child to feel that out of control and exhausting.

@PasstheBucket89 that’s not true - read comments - Dr Mike Shooter

@Trunkella

An over indulged child, who has been pandered to, and have had every need met by their parent for the majority of their life - is going to ‘freak out’ over even the most minor incident because they haven’t been taught emotional resilience - or how to handle negativity. Yet they are labelled as over sensitive with potential ASD. How is that fair on the child?

Trunkella, you're coming across as a little judgey about people who seek diagnoses or explanations for atypical behaviour, but didn't you say 2 pages ago that your child exhibited these same behaviours and you spoke to the school several times about possible ASD and that it was only after they dismissed you that you changed your parenting style which has resulted in a better behaved child?!

What makes you think other parents haven't tried all this before seeking diagnoses? I was very head in the sand about my son for years, refused to believe he wasn't NT, tried much harsher consequences and discipline, but turns out he has ASD and ADHD, and actually what we were doing was totally counterproductive.

@LockdownMayhem I’m judgey about the tendency on mumsnet to jump to an ASD armchair diagnosis before addressing parenting style - as I believe this is what I did with my DD. I’ve now strongly changed my parenting style - and DD is responding well. I do believe overdiagnosis is an issue and needs to be addressed - and not ‘jumped on’ - because it dilutes the situation for those in genuine need.

I would have a talk with your friend and ask if Emma is equally difficult at school. If so it sounds like she may be on the spectrum and needs to get to the GP for investigation. If she only behaves this was for your friend, though, then the friend needs to get some parenting support and figure out what she can do to get things on a better track.

I would of told her that her daughter made the holiday a shit experience and that way won't have to find a way out of a future one.

[quote Trunkella]@LockdownMayhem I’m judgey about the tendency on mumsnet to jump to an ASD armchair diagnosis before addressing parenting style - as I believe this is what I did with my DD. I’ve now strongly changed my parenting style - and DD is responding well. I do believe overdiagnosis is an issue and needs to be addressed - and not ‘jumped on’ - because it dilutes the situation for those in genuine need.[/quote]
I can only speak from my own experience and those of the few people I know I'm the same situation, and the diagnosis took 2 years from start to finish. The doctor referred us twice to the community paediatrics, we were refused twice through supposed lack of evidence despite reams of evidence from us, the school, his previous school. Once they finally agreed to see us, it took 2 years to reach a diagnosis and involved assessments from a lot of different professionals who observed him.

It is not an easy process and I find it very hard to believe kids are diagnosed willy Billy. I also know if other parents who are asked to attend parenting courses first (we weren't, I'm not sure why, but perhaps because we have an older child who is very well behaved, I'm not sure). The ADHD was slightly quicker, but I think that's because we were already 18 months into the umbrella pathway at that point so they already had a lotmof the evidence from the ed psych etc and there was some overlap.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is people often say we diagnose, but the process is so hard, involved and long winded I really struggle to see how that could be the case.

That just isn’t true localocal - children with asd often mask at school and fall apart at home as a result.

*Nilly, not Billy!

@Trunkella without wanting to hijack the thread what did you do to change your parenting style? I feel like I need to make some changes for the same reasons

@LockdownMayhem - because people like me (middle class, narcissistic tendencies, used to putting myself first, over indulged, over consume, spoilt life, lacking confidence, overly social) would find it easier to medicalise my child’s needs than address that my parenting style is weak. This makes the situation harder for you who has a genuine need.

There's been a recent thread on this (ADHD and how some people believe it doesn't exist) so I'm not rehashing all that, but the fact is in this country it takes years, massive effort and usually £££ to get any help with even quite severe parenting/child behaviour issues. And along the way you face lots of judgement and being told you're the problem. The norm is definitely NOT people calling in experts too early. The norm is years of trying to manage ineffectively (like the friend in this post).

*Trunkella", I don't think you need anyone to judge you tbh. Sounds like you're doing that yourself .

@Trunkella I agree with the above poster. I too don't see how asd can be over diagnosed.
The process takes years and multiple professional input and assessment. My dd was on the pathway for years and years and first of all was given input and stratagies from OT for well over a year.
My senco at school was saying the other day that is extremely difficult to even get a referral and make it through the assessment door never mind actually get seen. This is something I have heard and experienced from other parents both professionally and in my social circle.
I don't know if you have any experience of the asd assessment process but honestly your wrong. I cannot stress enough how hard it is to get a diagnosis in the UK so there is no way a 'wrong' diagnosis is possible. And just so you know parenting of the child is explored in great detail and a full history is divulged before you even step foot into a paediatrics department.

@Notsurewhatsgoingon
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/26/autism-neurodiversity-severe

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2019/08/21/autism-now-over-diagnosed-will-meaningless-condition-within/amp/
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/autism-is-vastly-overdiagnosed-its-the-parentswayout-xzwlg2wsx

I think I would say you want time to yourselfs as a family as see how that goes. Don't cut your holiday short if you don't have to plus when home or before you travel back speak to your friend and say to her could she try to not pamper to her child's needs as much.

@LockdownMayhem - because people like me (middle class, narcissistic tendencies, used to putting myself first, over indulged, over consume, spoilt life, lacking confidence, overly social) would find it easier to medicalise my child’s needs than address that my parenting style is weak. This makes the situation harder for you who has a genuine need

The question I have is, did you go through the full assessment process, how long did they take? Or are you saying you blamed a disability so you didn't need to parent?

@Trunkella

It concerns me on mumsnet that there is a tendency to medicalise any behaviour rather than address parenting first. If a child is being taught boundaries, self-discipline, responsibility and respect (particularly of their parents) - then they don’t ‘know’ how to behave. Yet rather that accept this, and admit the parent may be at fault - people assume a medical condition which has the danger of diluting the condition itself.

Even if this is a parenting issue, the child's behaviour is so far gone that she requires professional help anyway - meaning your comment is irrelevant.