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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

On holiday with friend and her kids; it's not going well

542 replies

GlummyMcGlummerson · 22/08/2020 11:35

For context, my DD (8)was diagnosed a few weeks ago with a (mild) neurological condition. As part of this she has good days and bad days - good days she’s a normal 8yo with a normal routine, bad days she get dizzy spells, nausea, headaches (usually triggered by noise or bright lights) and sleeps a lot. She’ll have a 1-2 hour nap and then 14-15 hours at night. I am essentially waiting to see if she gets over it on her own before considering treatment, on advice of her doctor.

We (me, DD and 4yo DS) are on week-long UK holiday with my friend and her kids who are the same age as mine, a couple of hours from where we live. My friend’s 8yo - lets call her Emma - is a sensitive child, always has been, my friend has discussed it with me before, but I never gave it too much thought, my own DD can certainly be sensitive. However we are now on day 4 of the holiday, and living in close quarters with them I’ve realised she’s VERY over sensitive and it’s affecting everyone’s enjoyment of the holiday, and more importantly my DD’s condition. Emma is NT.

A few examples
⁃ they were colouring the other day and Emma went slightly over the lines in her picture. She burst into tears, blamed her mum because her mum was talking to me, and cried for half an hour, chucking her paper in the bin
⁃ - they put a “play” on for us the other night and Emma jumbled up for words. She got really upset, sat on the floor sobbing with her arms folded and refused to finish the play, which annoyed DD the others as they wanted to show us.
⁃ She stubbed her toe on the sofa yesterday and had a totally OTT reaction. She grabbed her foot, rolled around on the floor and screamed the most high pitched scream I’ve ever heard, relentlessly, for 20 minutes. I had to take DD out the room as it brought on a headache. If you overheard you’d think she’d have been stabbed. Her toe was fine, no break and no bruise.
⁃ We went for a picnic yesterday and when we packed up we told the kids that they all had to carry something back and we gave Emma the (lightweight) picnic blanket to carry. After a couple of minutes of walking back to the lodge, and heard a shriek. We turned around and she was about 10m away sitting on the ground crying hysterically. She said it was because the blanket was too heavy then we all left her behind. My friend had to carry for uphill back to the lodge and she cried all the way.

It’s lots of little things all the time. As to not drip feed, my friend’s DH has said before (in front of my friend) he thinks Emma’s sensitivity is exacerbated by her mum babying her. I (secretly) agree - she carries her a lot because she “gets tired legs” - such as round the supermarket, or from a restaurant to the car, or out of someone’s house. She also apologises to her a lot where I don’t think it’s necessary - she apologised for “making” her go over the lines when colouring. She also lays with her every night til she falls asleep - singing a lullaby or scratching her back, for about 1-2 hours. Her 4yo goes to sleep alone! The last 3 nights I’ve looked forward to having a bottle of wine with my friend, but she doesn’t usually come down til 10pm from putting Emma to bed. She’s attempted making her fall asleep alone before but had little success.

Anyway DD has been quite good about Emma’s tantrums considering she hasn’t been well, and every day has been a “bad day” for her. But last night when DD started to feel sleepy around 6pm, and Emma wanted her to play a game. DD said no she just wanted to watch a bit of TV, and Emma has a strop and told her mum that DD was a “bad friend”. At that point DD burst into tears and said to me, in front of Emma, that this is a rubbish holiday and Emma is ruining it 😬 well, merry hell broke loose and I took DD to bed to try and diffuse the situation.

Me and my friend had a bottle of wine and a bit of a grumble last night about it all, she said she has a daily struggle with Emma being so sensitive and her DH goes out the house for hours at a time to sit in a car park because he can’t stand the noise.

When I woke DD up today she said that she feels sick all the time and wants to go home Sad. TBH I feel the same way, I’m sick of the shrieking and whilst I feel sorry for my friend it’s making it an unenjoyable holiday.

I figure I have 4 options:
1. Go home - say DD just isn’t well enough (DS is very chilled out and likely wouldn’t mind this but I’m loathe to cut his holiday short)
2. Tell my friend how Emma’s behaviour is affecting DD and ask her to speak to her or step in before it escalates
3. Do more as a family of three separately from the other family and maybe just meet them for dinner
4. Say nothing, they’re kids and will get over it
WWYD?

OP posts:
Capsulate · 23/08/2020 19:10

@oakleaffy was he a fan of Sartre?

Agree that @Scottsy100, your choice of words to describe a little girl are disgusting. I hope they get deleted.

Wills · 23/08/2020 19:13

I think, OP, that you've done the right thing but the issue that stood out for me is your friend's belief that as a SAHM she can do nothing. That's not true. I gave up a high powered career to become a SAHM because 3 out of 4 of my kids are not NT. I'm blessed with a husband whom I still love. He struggles with parenting but knows all too well that should I leave him I would a) do the best in the divorce as I gave up my career to manage the kids, but possibly more relavently b) he would then HAVE to look after them from time to time. I suspect this scares him more than the former. That said I don't want to detract from him adoring his kids, its just that he doesn't want to spend time with them without me!

AllOutOfNaiceHam · 23/08/2020 19:19

Will come back in a bit to RTFT, but Emma does not sound NT. Quite a few parents are in complete denial over things like this, and particularly girls on the spectrum are often missed.

AllOutOfNaiceHam · 23/08/2020 19:20

That said, if it's ruining your holiday and mamit difficult for your DD, do not feel obliged to stay.

ThisMama1 · 23/08/2020 19:20

I’m late to the thread & haven’t read all 18 pages but it sounds as though she could have autism. It can present very differently in females which is why is goes unnoticed until adulthood for a lot of girls. It can be put down to things like being over sensitive, a perfectionist etc etc. I don’t know how you would raise that with your friend, perhaps tell a white lie & say you know someone who’s on the pathway & she’s very much like your friends daughter, I don’t know. But as I was reading your post the more I was thinking possible autism. My boy has significant special needs & have been in full time Sen education since he was 2 so I’ve been very involved in the school/children/parents groups etc & not just throwing autism out there as an excuse as some people might

NannyOggsWhiskyStash · 23/08/2020 19:22

If she truly is a good friend, then I think 2 and 3 are the only compassionate options. Take time with just your kids, but maybe you also need to have a talk with your friend, her daughter sounds like she may be on the spectrum, and perhaps your friend needs to open up about it.

eeyore228 · 23/08/2020 19:24

I’d go home. I know an Emma and as much as I sympathise the behaviour is constantly excused. There’s always a reason and it ends up with most people bending over backwards. I know some children experience things differently and may well have diagnoses that help to explain some of the behaviours but at the same time there is a point that I reach where I am not prepared to make my own DS feel like shit when he hasn’t actually done anything. When he does then he has to deal with the consequences but your own DD is unwell and I can’t imagine that the environment is pleasant. Cut your losses x

Legoandloldolls · 23/08/2020 19:30

My DD5 is a steamer with demand avoidance personality. She might seem NT to most but she two brothers with SEN so I'm not so sure.

SEN in girls is very misunderstood. I think my dd has ASD and cant cope with anxiety around this not going as she had planned in her head. I'm hoping I'm wrong and its a phase. But she is on a dx pathway now anyway as the wait for camhs is shockingly wrong.

However would I suggest ASD to a parent who refuses to see SEN? Nope. Never. Because even some parents still tell me that my son with ASD in a 30k a year school is fine. Some people just refuse to see it.

Maybe it's not that. I really wouldnt offer my opinion to the mum unless she asks. That can never end well

OhCaptain · 23/08/2020 19:32

@AllOutOfNaiceHam

That said, if it's ruining your holiday and mamit difficult for your DD, do not feel obliged to stay.
If only someone had suggested that hundreds of posts ago...
BlogTheBlogger · 23/08/2020 19:46

@AllOutOfNaiceHam

That said, if it's ruining your holiday and mamit difficult for your DD, do not feel obliged to stay.
Oh thank goodness!! OP has been sitting with cases packed, keys in hand, waiting for permission!! No one else knew what ON EARTH to do

Right OP - you can leave now Grin

BeverlyHa · 23/08/2020 19:53

I am not a specialist but your friend's daughter surely ( by what you are describing ) is born with sensitivities and i have heard of kids with Selective mutism behaving like that

Again, i am not a doctor or nurse but be patient please. Your child is diagnosed but your friend has to live with her child too, with all her sensitivities not only on holiday....

Jessicafirsttimer · 23/08/2020 19:56

Emma doesn’t sound NT to me. Emma sounds like she has asd.

bluebella4 · 23/08/2020 19:58

Her daughter is spoilt not "sensitive". There is no excuse for that kind off behaviour. Her mum is the problem and can very easily fix it but getting her act together and be a firm but far parent.

You go enjoy your holiday with your children. It seems your friend wants to avoid dealing with her child.

BiscoffAnythingIsTheWayForward · 23/08/2020 20:04

Sounds awful for you. I would personally just say that your own DD is really not well and you want to get her home for more medical advice.

Not read the whole thread but if it’s not already been suggested, look up Pathological Demand Avoidance. Whilst I think that Emma’s parents haven’t helped because they’ve tried to placate her by going along with what she wants, the things she does and the way she reacts is classical PDA. My son has PDA and there are techniques you can use to work with them to diffuse the situation and reason with them. My boy is the middle of 3 boys and he is also 8. I absolutely do not let him have his own way and am not a soft touch. The PDA isn’t relevant to the parents because no matter how you treat them, they will always react in the same way and it’s linked to anxiety. My boy flipped out over taking a plate downstairs yesterday. Went absolutely crazy, and believe me, I could ask him to do this every day and he will be ok with it and just this one time he’ll go off the scale because he’s probably anxious about something else. I’m not excusing her behaviour but her parents ignoring the issue is really not helping her or anyone else. My boy shows signs of it at school but he masks. This past 5 months have been very hard work but with consistency he’s not been too bad this past 6 weeks or so, thank goodness.

NotExactlyHappyToHelp · 23/08/2020 20:09

@CustardySergeant Sorry must be a regional turn of phrase. It means acting up or having a strop.

SallyB392 · 23/08/2020 20:15

I'm sorry but your friends daughter isn't 'very sensitive', she's just a spoilt brat, who if allowed to continue as she is, will result in the break up of her parents and will alienate her mum from everyone else.

Unfortunately, her behaviour won't be resolved on holiday. I'm afraid I would go home, and be very clear with your friend that you are leaving because her daughter is spoiling it for everyone.

Once home, spend the next few days having day trips, building camps (camping out doors in the garden if you can), & enjoying your children.

When your friend gets home, suggest an evening for just the 2 of you, and explain h ow poor her daughter's behaviour and how badly affects you. Ideally perhaps you could help suggest ways in which your friend might approach things to change her behaviour. Positive reward for good behaviour as opposed to punishment for bad would probably work best.

PhilSwagielka · 23/08/2020 20:19

@Teddybear27

If it is affecting you that much, go home, you are on holiday for goodness sake!....
She did!
Stackys · 23/08/2020 20:25

Spoilt kid. Horrible kid. Her mother needs to know before she grows into a horrible adult.

Notsurewhatsgoingon · 23/08/2020 20:34

I have not read the full thread but the little I did read made me want to cry. My dd7 is an Emma. She has asd but most people don't or won't know or be able to see that. Its exhausting for me and dh and for everyone in our house. It's also why I'm reluctant to go out at all and spend time with other children dds age. No one would want to come on holiday with us, the first day is hellish so even we feel like going home. She comes across as a spoli brat but it's not because of that and I don't know what to do to change it. We have no support as it's non existant in our area.
We do try very hard to manage it and I do not and would not lie with her to sleep or carry her but she would not carry anything and does screech etc..
Sorry don't have an answer but I do feel sad for Emma and her mum, it's so lonely.

MarvellousMonsters · 23/08/2020 20:35

I think I’d make an excuse and go early.

For the record, I’m not convinced ‘Emma’ is NT.

Trunkella · 23/08/2020 20:35

My daughter’s behaviour is very similar to Emma - and I’ve spoken to her school several times suggesting ASD (instigated by me) - but they don’t really see an issue. I’ve tried the gentle approach, but over lockdown I HAD to be very firm, strict boundaries, consequences in order to get school work done. She is like a changed child now - behaviour is so much easier to handle, far less tantrums. TBH the thought that she might have ASD has made me fearful to discipline her in the past - whereas this is what she needed.

OhCaptain · 23/08/2020 20:36

@MarvellousMonsters

I think I’d make an excuse and go early.

For the record, I’m not convinced ‘Emma’ is NT.

Go home early from where? Considering she already left the holiday...
Trunkella · 23/08/2020 20:39

She cut her leg at the park last week - and whereas a meltdown would have usually ensued - I firmly told her that - she’s fine, everyone gets bumps - and the bigger bumps you get/the better summer holiday you have. She was absolutely fine/laughed and has proudly shown it off to all.

Tootsey11 · 23/08/2020 20:42

I would go home Op. Take your own child away from this drama.

I know a 28 year old who is still behaving the way you describe 'Emma'. She has behaved this way since a child and is continuing to do so as an adult, crying in public when she doesn't get her way, demanding and attention seeking every single day. And her mother continues to indulge her. She has no SEN.

Emma needs help with her behaviour, and her mother needs help so that she sees the damage she is doing. Otherwise the behaviour will continue into adulthood.

iklboo · 23/08/2020 20:46

I would go home Op. Take your own child away from this drama.

AAARRRGGGHHHHHHH!

I would read the full thread. She was home at 8:30pm last night.

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