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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

On holiday with friend and her kids; it's not going well

542 replies

GlummyMcGlummerson · 22/08/2020 11:35

For context, my DD (8)was diagnosed a few weeks ago with a (mild) neurological condition. As part of this she has good days and bad days - good days she’s a normal 8yo with a normal routine, bad days she get dizzy spells, nausea, headaches (usually triggered by noise or bright lights) and sleeps a lot. She’ll have a 1-2 hour nap and then 14-15 hours at night. I am essentially waiting to see if she gets over it on her own before considering treatment, on advice of her doctor.

We (me, DD and 4yo DS) are on week-long UK holiday with my friend and her kids who are the same age as mine, a couple of hours from where we live. My friend’s 8yo - lets call her Emma - is a sensitive child, always has been, my friend has discussed it with me before, but I never gave it too much thought, my own DD can certainly be sensitive. However we are now on day 4 of the holiday, and living in close quarters with them I’ve realised she’s VERY over sensitive and it’s affecting everyone’s enjoyment of the holiday, and more importantly my DD’s condition. Emma is NT.

A few examples
⁃ they were colouring the other day and Emma went slightly over the lines in her picture. She burst into tears, blamed her mum because her mum was talking to me, and cried for half an hour, chucking her paper in the bin
⁃ - they put a “play” on for us the other night and Emma jumbled up for words. She got really upset, sat on the floor sobbing with her arms folded and refused to finish the play, which annoyed DD the others as they wanted to show us.
⁃ She stubbed her toe on the sofa yesterday and had a totally OTT reaction. She grabbed her foot, rolled around on the floor and screamed the most high pitched scream I’ve ever heard, relentlessly, for 20 minutes. I had to take DD out the room as it brought on a headache. If you overheard you’d think she’d have been stabbed. Her toe was fine, no break and no bruise.
⁃ We went for a picnic yesterday and when we packed up we told the kids that they all had to carry something back and we gave Emma the (lightweight) picnic blanket to carry. After a couple of minutes of walking back to the lodge, and heard a shriek. We turned around and she was about 10m away sitting on the ground crying hysterically. She said it was because the blanket was too heavy then we all left her behind. My friend had to carry for uphill back to the lodge and she cried all the way.

It’s lots of little things all the time. As to not drip feed, my friend’s DH has said before (in front of my friend) he thinks Emma’s sensitivity is exacerbated by her mum babying her. I (secretly) agree - she carries her a lot because she “gets tired legs” - such as round the supermarket, or from a restaurant to the car, or out of someone’s house. She also apologises to her a lot where I don’t think it’s necessary - she apologised for “making” her go over the lines when colouring. She also lays with her every night til she falls asleep - singing a lullaby or scratching her back, for about 1-2 hours. Her 4yo goes to sleep alone! The last 3 nights I’ve looked forward to having a bottle of wine with my friend, but she doesn’t usually come down til 10pm from putting Emma to bed. She’s attempted making her fall asleep alone before but had little success.

Anyway DD has been quite good about Emma’s tantrums considering she hasn’t been well, and every day has been a “bad day” for her. But last night when DD started to feel sleepy around 6pm, and Emma wanted her to play a game. DD said no she just wanted to watch a bit of TV, and Emma has a strop and told her mum that DD was a “bad friend”. At that point DD burst into tears and said to me, in front of Emma, that this is a rubbish holiday and Emma is ruining it 😬 well, merry hell broke loose and I took DD to bed to try and diffuse the situation.

Me and my friend had a bottle of wine and a bit of a grumble last night about it all, she said she has a daily struggle with Emma being so sensitive and her DH goes out the house for hours at a time to sit in a car park because he can’t stand the noise.

When I woke DD up today she said that she feels sick all the time and wants to go home Sad. TBH I feel the same way, I’m sick of the shrieking and whilst I feel sorry for my friend it’s making it an unenjoyable holiday.

I figure I have 4 options:
1. Go home - say DD just isn’t well enough (DS is very chilled out and likely wouldn’t mind this but I’m loathe to cut his holiday short)
2. Tell my friend how Emma’s behaviour is affecting DD and ask her to speak to her or step in before it escalates
3. Do more as a family of three separately from the other family and maybe just meet them for dinner
4. Say nothing, they’re kids and will get over it
WWYD?

OP posts:
FredaFox · 23/08/2020 20:47

@OhCaptain @BlogTheBlogger 👏👏👏 18 pages and we are still seeing replies to leave 😂 WHY?!?!

BlogTheBlogger · 23/08/2020 20:49

I would go home Op. Take your own child away from this drama.

Lol

GlummyMcGlummerson · 23/08/2020 20:59

Just politely popping on to say I left over 24 hours ago. Left on good terms and, despite some bizarre advice, was able to have a grown up "goodbye" with my friend without calling her a shit parent/telling her her daughter is a 'twat', insisting she leave instead, 'deliver a few home truths' (I mean is this really how people treat their friends?) and I didn't leave my son with her either as tempting as that was Grin

DD has had a 'good' day, as in no headaches, naps, or dizzy spells and she went to bed at 7pm. In fact I've been side-eyeing the two of them suspiciously as they've been really lovely to each other All day! I'm thinking maybe after 4 days with other people's kids her little brother doesn't seem so bad after all Grin

OP posts:
Vinomummyinlockdown · 23/08/2020 20:59

Urgh. Go home and look after your child. Life is too short for other people’s terrible parenting!

GrannyBags · 23/08/2020 21:10

Glad you are home and DD has had a better day. My niece is an Emma, although she has become less demanding as she has got older.

Flamingle18 · 23/08/2020 21:11

My son has dyspraxia and whilst he's quite sensitive he's nothing like Emma and also wouldn't be allowed to be. Dyspraxia and autism are linked so could maybe be more if that is the case? Enjoy York 😊

BlogTheBlogger · 23/08/2020 21:28

@Vinomummyinlockdown

Urgh. Go home and look after your child. Life is too short for other people’s terrible parenting!
The comment DIRECTLY after the OP reiterating she's been home for 24 hours Grin Grin
livvymc · 23/08/2020 21:48

@Vinomummyinlockdown

Urgh. Go home and look after your child. Life is too short for other people’s terrible parenting!
Jesus!!! Rtfft!! Or at least the OP’s posts! She’s been home for 25 hours! Hmm
minipie · 23/08/2020 22:15

I have an Emma, she is 7. She is not NT although also not ASD (but has some ASD and ADHD like traits). Her diagnosis is very mild cerebral palsy. The tired legs and carrying of Emma made me wonder if that might be a possibility for Emma.

Just in case you ever do end up having a conversation about SN with Emma’s mother... appreciate that may never happen !

SarahFrances89 · 23/08/2020 22:17

Are you sure friend’s DD is neurotypical herself? I was diagnosed with dyspraxia as an adult and was very ‘over sensitive’ as a child in the way Emma is. I remember vividly getting the mildest negative (more neutral than even negative, just not glowing) comment on a school report and I felt so, so ashamed and awful I was in floods of tears for hours and hid behind the sofa cos I couldn’t bear people looking at me; my mum has described similar episodes to the colouring outside the lines one to me too. Dyspraxia is a specific learning difference that affects coordination, muscle tone, memory and cognitive processing and is strongly associated with anxiety and depression too, both of which I very much exhibited as a child. I also remember being really genuinely upset at the prospect of a 5 minute walk because judging time is also off for dyspraxics - that genuinely felt overwhelmingly long for how tired I was until I got to the end and was like ‘oh that wasn’t that long’. I absolutely wasn’t being a brat, the thought was completely overwhelming. And low muscle tone can affect tiredness and muscle strength which the picnic blanket story made me think of. Of course I’m not diagnosing her and she may be NT, but she also may not. MANY things go undiagnosed until very late, and Emma certainly sounds at least like an anxious child with the strength of her reaction to things going wrong. If the holiday is too much, as it sounds like, I’d cut it short and would consider talking to your friend. Both her and her husband sound overwhelmed and like they’re aware this isn’t ‘normal’; some space to talk and an outside perspective validating the difficulty they’re going through might encourage them to get some support, which it sounds like they need. Whether it is your friend ‘babying’ her (which I’d find surprising given she clearly understands more typical boundaried parenting with her 4 year old) or something else, they do clearly need support. But that’s not on you to deliver and especially not on holiday.

PeachyPeachTrees · 23/08/2020 22:19

My son was like Emma. He was assessed and found to be NT. I was given strategies to help him and help the knock on effect to everyone in the household. It has been a hard couple of years and he's still 'difficult'. My other son has always been laid back and easy. Now my 'Emma' is a little easier, my DH spends more time with us as a family and both of my children are happier and get on better.

SarahFrances89 · 23/08/2020 22:20

And WOW please no one shout at me that OP is home - I didn’t have time nor the inclination to read 18 pages, I wanted to share my experience with dyspraxia and the potential that Emma isn’t needed NT or at the very least may well have some MH struggles. I thought that important to highlight given some of the very negative comments just immediately leaping to bad parenting.

TooTrusting · 23/08/2020 22:23

My DN is like this. She has finally been diagnosed at the age of 13 with Aspergers. She behaved like Emma down to a T. Spending holidays with them was exhausting and we put a lot of it down to how my DSIS parented her.

MrsHuffyPuff · 23/08/2020 22:44

I would probably try option 3 for the day and then get the kids to bed and then say to your friend that her DD seems upset very easily and you know how hard it can be so is she ok? Maybe she needs to open up to get some perspective? My DS1 could be socially difficult and emotional but from seeing my brother in law (only 10 years of a difference to DS1) I realised unless I showed a bit ‘tough love’ and explained his behaviour was annoying to others and not a good life quality I wasn’t helping him by pandering to him. Life is so much easier and DS1 is very popular within his peer group. I really feel l for your friend and sorry your holiday is tough.

SomethingNastyInTheBallPool · 23/08/2020 22:53

Emma doesn’t sound neurotypical to me. She sounds as if she has a sensory processing disorder at the least, and quite possibly autism.

TomPinch · 23/08/2020 23:42

@OhCaptain

Where is the Dad at bedtime?

Off being a useless prick. Like I said...

Perhaps not. More like he's been sidelined and given the choice of parenting the DW's way or not parenting at all.

From the OP's posts, it's clear that he disagrees with the way his DW parents his DD. For example:

he'd come back from the gym and Emma wanted to sing him a song she made up. He said give me 20 minutes I'll have a shower first and she burst into tears.

On the face of it, perfectly reasonable of him.

My friend said to him could you just watch her before your shower please

I expect that happened in front of the kids. I bet the DW does it lots.

anyway it seems it ended in a row (away from the kids) as her DH thought my friend should've supported him and made Emma wait, and he feels undermined a lot to pander to Emma.

I'm not surprised he should think that way. It's perfectly reasonable.

He thinks his child needs a few boundaries. While it's easy to assume that the DD is on the spectrum etc, it's telling that both parents think this is purely behavioural. If so, the mother's actions are a hell of a lot harder to justify.

I suspect the DH has tried to explain this, has been shot down by the DW and has now given up.

Newmom12 · 24/08/2020 00:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ExhaustedFlamingo · 24/08/2020 02:16

Another vote him for getting Emma assessed. Girls on the spectrum present very differently than boys and controlling, anxious, over-sensitivity type behaviour can be common.

I have two autistic children, one girl, one boy, my son also has dyspraxia and sensory processing disorder. All of these types of conditions are linked and there’s often an overlap in signs/behaviours.

I’m not diagnosing or saying this is the cause of Emma’s behaviour, but if that’s extreme and there are other siblings without the same issues, I’d say it’s worth a closer look by a professional.

PleaseJustLetMePeeInPeace · 24/08/2020 03:06

Reading the description of "emma" sounds like you are talking about my children! This was similar to how my now 13 year old used to behave & exactly to the T how my 5 year old behaves and both my girls have Autism with the 5yo being more severe. She also has ADHD and sensory issues. Depending on how close you are with this friend I would suggest asking if her or her partner has ever considered the possibility of Autism. It may feel like you are being rude but if it is Autism & your friend doesn't suspect it then being nudged in the right direction will be the best thing that could ever happen to that family & they will get the help they need & will most certainly need in the future! I haven't read all the comments because I have been laid with my 5 yo for the last 2 & a half hours while she tries to go to sleep! I am half asleep myself so apologies if this has already been brought up/ discussed or whatever 😴

famousforwrongreason · 24/08/2020 03:29

It sounds really hard work but it also sounds as though Emma is somewhere on the asd spectrum just undiagnosed. Either that or serious anxiety issues manifesting in challenging ways (both anxiety disorders and certain autistic traits are around trying to manipulate and control situations where they're feeling overwhelmed or out of their depth. Pda is one maybe worth your friend looking into it. Girls with asd can be very good at masking it until they're out of their comfort zone

famousforwrongreason · 24/08/2020 03:31

@PleaseJustLetMePeeInPeace

Reading the description of "emma" sounds like you are talking about my children! This was similar to how my now 13 year old used to behave & exactly to the T how my 5 year old behaves and both my girls have Autism with the 5yo being more severe. She also has ADHD and sensory issues. Depending on how close you are with this friend I would suggest asking if her or her partner has ever considered the possibility of Autism. It may feel like you are being rude but if it is Autism & your friend doesn't suspect it then being nudged in the right direction will be the best thing that could ever happen to that family & they will get the help they need & will most certainly need in the future! I haven't read all the comments because I have been laid with my 5 yo for the last 2 & a half hours while she tries to go to sleep! I am half asleep myself so apologies if this has already been brought up/ discussed or whatever 😴
Oh wow. Crossed posts. How did you find out @PleaseJustLetMePeeInPeace? What made you suspect and how did you obtain the assessment?
jessstan2 · 24/08/2020 03:47

I'm glad you're home, it was the right decision.

MonaLisaDoesntSmile · 24/08/2020 03:49

Agree with posters who say this cold does not sound NT at all. I feel sorry for her as at one point in future she may be diagnose, look back and realise why she struggled all those years, alas too late.

Alison421e · 24/08/2020 05:16

Glad you got home safely! I’ve been following you’re story. Yes you are definitely right about the “bizarre advice” on mumsnet! I don’t think people really talk like that to their friends in rl. I worry sometimes as very vulnerable people (which at done point in our lives we have all been one) can take too much notice of this advice and act on it.

Trunkella · 24/08/2020 05:20

It concerns me on mumsnet that there is a tendency to medicalise any behaviour rather than address parenting first. If a child is being taught boundaries, self-discipline, responsibility and respect (particularly of their parents) - then they don’t ‘know’ how to behave. Yet rather that accept this, and admit the parent may be at fault - people assume a medical condition which has the danger of diluting the condition itself.