On holiday with friend and her kids; it's not going well

[GlummyMcGlummerson]

For context, my DD (8)was diagnosed a few weeks ago with a (mild) neurological condition. As part of this she has good days and bad days - good days she’s a normal 8yo with a normal routine, bad days she get dizzy spells, nausea, headaches (usually triggered by noise or bright lights) and sleeps a lot. She’ll have a 1-2 hour nap and then 14-15 hours at night. I am essentially waiting to see if she gets over it on her own before considering treatment, on advice of her doctor.

We (me, DD and 4yo DS) are on week-long UK holiday with my friend and her kids who are the same age as mine, a couple of hours from where we live. My friend’s 8yo - lets call her Emma - is a sensitive child, always has been, my friend has discussed it with me before, but I never gave it too much thought, my own DD can certainly be sensitive. However we are now on day 4 of the holiday, and living in close quarters with them I’ve realised she’s VERY over sensitive and it’s affecting everyone’s enjoyment of the holiday, and more importantly my DD’s condition. Emma is NT.

A few examples
⁃ they were colouring the other day and Emma went slightly over the lines in her picture. She burst into tears, blamed her mum because her mum was talking to me, and cried for half an hour, chucking her paper in the bin
⁃ - they put a “play” on for us the other night and Emma jumbled up for words. She got really upset, sat on the floor sobbing with her arms folded and refused to finish the play, which annoyed DD the others as they wanted to show us.
⁃ She stubbed her toe on the sofa yesterday and had a totally OTT reaction. She grabbed her foot, rolled around on the floor and screamed the most high pitched scream I’ve ever heard, relentlessly, for 20 minutes. I had to take DD out the room as it brought on a headache. If you overheard you’d think she’d have been stabbed. Her toe was fine, no break and no bruise.
⁃ We went for a picnic yesterday and when we packed up we told the kids that they all had to carry something back and we gave Emma the (lightweight) picnic blanket to carry. After a couple of minutes of walking back to the lodge, and heard a shriek. We turned around and she was about 10m away sitting on the ground crying hysterically. She said it was because the blanket was too heavy then we all left her behind. My friend had to carry for uphill back to the lodge and she cried all the way.

It’s lots of little things all the time. As to not drip feed, my friend’s DH has said before (in front of my friend) he thinks Emma’s sensitivity is exacerbated by her mum babying her. I (secretly) agree - she carries her a lot because she “gets tired legs” - such as round the supermarket, or from a restaurant to the car, or out of someone’s house. She also apologises to her a lot where I don’t think it’s necessary - she apologised for “making” her go over the lines when colouring. She also lays with her every night til she falls asleep - singing a lullaby or scratching her back, for about 1-2 hours. Her 4yo goes to sleep alone! The last 3 nights I’ve looked forward to having a bottle of wine with my friend, but she doesn’t usually come down til 10pm from putting Emma to bed. She’s attempted making her fall asleep alone before but had little success.

Anyway DD has been quite good about Emma’s tantrums considering she hasn’t been well, and every day has been a “bad day” for her. But last night when DD started to feel sleepy around 6pm, and Emma wanted her to play a game. DD said no she just wanted to watch a bit of TV, and Emma has a strop and told her mum that DD was a “bad friend”. At that point DD burst into tears and said to me, in front of Emma, that this is a rubbish holiday and Emma is ruining it 😬 well, merry hell broke loose and I took DD to bed to try and diffuse the situation.

Me and my friend had a bottle of wine and a bit of a grumble last night about it all, she said she has a daily struggle with Emma being so sensitive and her DH goes out the house for hours at a time to sit in a car park because he can’t stand the noise.

When I woke DD up today she said that she feels sick all the time and wants to go home . TBH I feel the same way, I’m sick of the shrieking and whilst I feel sorry for my friend it’s making it an unenjoyable holiday.

I figure I have 4 options:
1. Go home - say DD just isn’t well enough (DS is very chilled out and likely wouldn’t mind this but I’m loathe to cut his holiday short)
2. Tell my friend how Emma’s behaviour is affecting DD and ask her to speak to her or step in before it escalates
3. Do more as a family of three separately from the other family and maybe just meet them for dinner
4. Say nothing, they’re kids and will get over it
WWYD?

Emma knows how to get her mother's attention. That means that this is annoying for you too, because your cannot get your friend's attention because Emma keeps finding ways to make herself the most important thing in the room.
It's not that your friend hasn't time to go to the gym.
She hasn't made time for herself to go to the Gym. Her husband will take up the available space and leave the house, but she is allowing him to do that.
Your friend is babying the kids and making them her life's work. To the detriment of her own life.
She is teaching her daughter that the way to get 'love' by being very very needy and creating dramatic interventions for attention.
Your friend is over identifying with her role as a mother and needs to get a life.
I do not think you should wade in with your opinion. This Emma is not spoiling the holiday. Emma has no control over her pattern of responding, she has been taught how to do this by her mother's behaviour. Just go home yourself and give the reason that your kid being sick.

@pumper he is not off in his car - he is downstairs refusing to pander to a child who behaves that way because the mother validates the behaviour. She knows if she plays up she gets attention so she does. He has told my BFF numerous times to leave her but she won't. It's not his problem that my BFF behaves that way. Everyone other than her thinks it's ridiculous. Perhaps you are similar which is why you are so defensive about it?

I'm so so sad reading the intolerant responses. My dd1 is almost definitely asd (nearly diagnosed, assessment disrupted by covid) and her idiosyncrasies are likely to annoy people. Breaks my heart to think others judge her, and me, just because she handles things differently. We both do our best. Makes me glad we don't open our lives to less than tolerant 'friends'.

I'd go home, but stay and do our thing if you think that explained and work with out too great an issue.

Changing Emmas behavior in a day or two isn't going to happen. I feel very sorry for both her and Mum, sounds like they've fallen into a bad dynamic thats much easier to get into then out of, and I also can't imagine Emma being very popular at school or that she'll have an easy time transitioning to secondary which is only a few years away.

[quote whereorwhere]@pumper he is not off in his car - he is downstairs refusing to pander to a child who behaves that way because the mother validates the behaviour. She knows if she plays up she gets attention so she does. He has told my BFF numerous times to leave her but she won't. It's not his problem that my BFF behaves that way. Everyone other than her thinks it's ridiculous. Perhaps you are similar which is why you are so defensive about it? [/quote]
I forgot we were slagging off your friend and not the OP, sorry. Your best friend’s husband sees his child’s behaviour as ‘not his problem’ and you’re here celebrating that and bitching about your friend’s parenting? Do you have many friends?

I presume you've left OP but if not I would either do 2 or 3 first, depending what felt right (presuming your friend will take it the right way, which sounds like she would) I would then try the other one if not awkward, followed by leaving.

If DD is just too poorly and wouldn't enjoy a family or relaxed time, then just go. It's not worth it. But maybe just stay in the holiday place for a relaxed family movie day?

I'd cut your losses. I'd ask if Email us the and at school & if she isn't this might pave the way for suggesting the dramatics are an attention thing & ways to manage that.

I know a 7 year old like this, ridiculously over sensitive and it’s the parents feeding this behaviour. It’s exhausting and I always feel on edge whenever I’m around her with my DD wondering what minor thing is going to set off the hysterics. I actively avoid the family now.

In your position I would try 3 and say you think the kids need some space. Spend as much time apart. Maybe go home a day early if that doesn’t work.

WE ARE HOME!!

And we parted on good terms 

I was honest with my friend and said the constant noise and stress is triggering DD's symptoms and I couldn't see it getting any better, and the fairest thing for all the kids would be to take her home. I told her how bad I felt and said I love her and hope she doesn't hold it against me.

I really am very lucky to have her as she was completely understanding and said she didn't blame me at all. She said we will have a weekend somewhere just the two of us as soon as we can.

So we got home 20 minutes ago, DD is so happy and I've booked a hotel in York for Monday and Tuesday. It's refundable in case DD doesn't feel up to it. May do Lightwater Valley, weather permitting!

Re the DH, he puts the youngest to bed as Emma will only let her mum put her to bed. She's never had a night away from Emma (the youngest goes to grandma now and again). She probably does treat them differently but in fairness her 4yo is unbelievably laid back and independent. Same as my DS, you barely know they're there! I personally think her DH treats their 4yo better, he definitely has more time for the 'easy' child, I'd never say it out loud though. Poor Emma

I don't know why I didn't think of dyspraxia, my nephew has it and displays very similar symptoms to Emma! When the dust settles in a couple of days I will send my friend a link and say re what we were discussing, Emma is quite similar Charlie and have a read of this. She won't be offended.

I think it’s unfair on your ex the holiday should be cut short

@Flynn999 what has my ex got to do with it? He isn't even seeing them until Friday!

I always get fomo when I see other people on holidays with friends but then I remember it's so much easier not having to deal with other ppls kids and their ideas of what constitutes a nice day out
I realise I am prob missing out but I like being queen of our own decisions

And to clarify, no her DH wasn't on the holiday with us (and has declined to join her now I'm gone!!!). I always thought he was a good sort but things she told me last night - and the fact that he won't travel 2 hours for a free holiday with his family - makes me think differently.

I was married to a selfish lazy shit who couldn't be arsed parenting but scrutinised everything I did with the kids. He was happy to dole out parenting advice but never actually implement it himself. He never took off in the car like my friend's DH but he holed himself away on his Xbox every evening to avoid family time. The similarities are so blatantly obvious, at least I was able to get out of my misery, my poor friend is stuck with her useless lump

Was just commenting to say come home when I saw ur update.

Glad you were able t come home amicably OP

@pumper I'm not celebrating anything. I am making a point that the father may not be a bad dad and that Emma's behaviour may be amplified by how her mother behaves as I have seen in my experience with my BFF. I am not slagging her off I am describing her behaviour. As you don't know her and therefore have not experienced what I am talking about I don't really understand why you are getting so irate - other than perhaps it's touched a raw nerve

Glad you're home OP and I hope both your DC enjoy the next few days.

I'm also heartened that the majority of posters on this thread can see a bigger picture here and have identified that Emma would benefit from assessment of her needs.

Always so surprised at how little it takes to be a good dad, and a shit mum.

Indeed.

Carrying an 8yo round a supermarket is just mind blowing. FFS.

[quote whereorwhere]@pumper I'm not celebrating anything. I am making a point that the father may not be a bad dad and that Emma's behaviour may be amplified by how her mother behaves as I have seen in my experience with my BFF. I am not slagging her off I am describing her behaviour. As you don't know her and therefore have not experienced what I am talking about I don't really understand why you are getting so irate - other than perhaps it's touched a raw nerve[/quote]
You said she ‘panders’ to her, needs to ‘chill out’ and called her a ‘helicopter mum’. Supportive! This isn’t how friends talk about other friends - that and the idea that a father doing nothing for his child is a good thing.

Did you see the OP’s update about Emma’s father? Low bar indeed.

I dont think Emma sounds NT. She sounds a lot like my autistic DS. Autism/ ADHD in girls is often missed as they present differently.

Whether you label it or not I feel very sorry for the mum. She's obviously struggling and trusted you enough to let you see all the chaos.

If you can stay and do your own thing that would be best. Then she wont feel like she's been vulnerable to you and you've rejected them.

Obviously put your DD first though. If a day to yourselves doesnt help her, then bring her home.

If you can give Emma's Mum the chance to talk about it with you, I'm sure she'll be so grateful as it sounds like her DH is not supportive of her.
The fact that she lets her 4 year old fall asleep on his own makes me think she is responding to Emma's needs, not causing them.
When your child is explosive, discipline needs to happen slightly differently. It is better to avoid conflict if possiible, so this is why she was probably apologising to her...to try and avoid another meltdown.

She does pander to her and she is a helicopter mum. It's a fact end of. She is my friend and I love her but her behaviour doesn't help her daughter.

@whereorwhere

She does pander to her and she is a helicopter mum. It's a fact end of. She is my friend and I love her but her behaviour doesn't help her daughter.

You can’t possibly think you’ve a better idea on how to parent her than her own mother.

So you are saying her mother knows better than her father?

@whereorwhere

So you are saying her mother knows better than her father?

I’m saying the mother knows her child better than her ‘friend’.

Although this is the father who, as you say yourself, sees his kid’s habits as ‘not his problem’ so in this case probably yes.

OK I bow to your greater knowledge of a situation you know nothing about and accept that just because she gave birth to her she must manage her behaviour perfectly and the father - and everyone else who witnesses the behaviour are all wrong

@whereorwhere

OK I bow to your greater knowledge of a situation you know nothing about and accept that just because she gave birth to her she must manage her behaviour perfectly and the father - and everyone else who witnesses the behaviour are all wrong

😂😂😂 don’t go off in a huff, just because I don’t accept that your friend is a shitty parent and the child’s father is somehow beyond reproach for doing fuck all for his own kid - with the support of his partner’s best friend.

Like lots of PP have alluded to, it sounds like Emma has Autism/ADHD.

DS1 is 7 and has Asperger's (diagnosed recently by clinical psychologist). Some of his behaviour is similar. Emma sounds like she has the female version.

I would not assume she's NT. The people on this thread judging a parent of a child with possible disabilities should count themselves lucky that their own DC don't face these challenges.

I'm not going off in a huff - I just can't be arsed to argue with a random person about something I have experienced and they have not. She is a loving mother but her parenting is an issue. And actually he is a wonderful father, they both do their bit and he spends lots of daddy and daughter time with his child, he just doesn't agree with some of how she parents but she continues to do it that way and therefore it's up to her to deal with the fall out.