On holiday with friend and her kids; it's not going well

[GlummyMcGlummerson]

For context, my DD (8)was diagnosed a few weeks ago with a (mild) neurological condition. As part of this she has good days and bad days - good days she’s a normal 8yo with a normal routine, bad days she get dizzy spells, nausea, headaches (usually triggered by noise or bright lights) and sleeps a lot. She’ll have a 1-2 hour nap and then 14-15 hours at night. I am essentially waiting to see if she gets over it on her own before considering treatment, on advice of her doctor.

We (me, DD and 4yo DS) are on week-long UK holiday with my friend and her kids who are the same age as mine, a couple of hours from where we live. My friend’s 8yo - lets call her Emma - is a sensitive child, always has been, my friend has discussed it with me before, but I never gave it too much thought, my own DD can certainly be sensitive. However we are now on day 4 of the holiday, and living in close quarters with them I’ve realised she’s VERY over sensitive and it’s affecting everyone’s enjoyment of the holiday, and more importantly my DD’s condition. Emma is NT.

A few examples
⁃ they were colouring the other day and Emma went slightly over the lines in her picture. She burst into tears, blamed her mum because her mum was talking to me, and cried for half an hour, chucking her paper in the bin
⁃ - they put a “play” on for us the other night and Emma jumbled up for words. She got really upset, sat on the floor sobbing with her arms folded and refused to finish the play, which annoyed DD the others as they wanted to show us.
⁃ She stubbed her toe on the sofa yesterday and had a totally OTT reaction. She grabbed her foot, rolled around on the floor and screamed the most high pitched scream I’ve ever heard, relentlessly, for 20 minutes. I had to take DD out the room as it brought on a headache. If you overheard you’d think she’d have been stabbed. Her toe was fine, no break and no bruise.
⁃ We went for a picnic yesterday and when we packed up we told the kids that they all had to carry something back and we gave Emma the (lightweight) picnic blanket to carry. After a couple of minutes of walking back to the lodge, and heard a shriek. We turned around and she was about 10m away sitting on the ground crying hysterically. She said it was because the blanket was too heavy then we all left her behind. My friend had to carry for uphill back to the lodge and she cried all the way.

It’s lots of little things all the time. As to not drip feed, my friend’s DH has said before (in front of my friend) he thinks Emma’s sensitivity is exacerbated by her mum babying her. I (secretly) agree - she carries her a lot because she “gets tired legs” - such as round the supermarket, or from a restaurant to the car, or out of someone’s house. She also apologises to her a lot where I don’t think it’s necessary - she apologised for “making” her go over the lines when colouring. She also lays with her every night til she falls asleep - singing a lullaby or scratching her back, for about 1-2 hours. Her 4yo goes to sleep alone! The last 3 nights I’ve looked forward to having a bottle of wine with my friend, but she doesn’t usually come down til 10pm from putting Emma to bed. She’s attempted making her fall asleep alone before but had little success.

Anyway DD has been quite good about Emma’s tantrums considering she hasn’t been well, and every day has been a “bad day” for her. But last night when DD started to feel sleepy around 6pm, and Emma wanted her to play a game. DD said no she just wanted to watch a bit of TV, and Emma has a strop and told her mum that DD was a “bad friend”. At that point DD burst into tears and said to me, in front of Emma, that this is a rubbish holiday and Emma is ruining it 😬 well, merry hell broke loose and I took DD to bed to try and diffuse the situation.

Me and my friend had a bottle of wine and a bit of a grumble last night about it all, she said she has a daily struggle with Emma being so sensitive and her DH goes out the house for hours at a time to sit in a car park because he can’t stand the noise.

When I woke DD up today she said that she feels sick all the time and wants to go home . TBH I feel the same way, I’m sick of the shrieking and whilst I feel sorry for my friend it’s making it an unenjoyable holiday.

I figure I have 4 options:
1. Go home - say DD just isn’t well enough (DS is very chilled out and likely wouldn’t mind this but I’m loathe to cut his holiday short)
2. Tell my friend how Emma’s behaviour is affecting DD and ask her to speak to her or step in before it escalates
3. Do more as a family of three separately from the other family and maybe just meet them for dinner
4. Say nothing, they’re kids and will get over it
WWYD?

I’d go home

@ancientgran, I feel your pain. It was a different time surely?

It seems to be much more prevalent that labels are slapped on kids these days

Don't go there, ever.

@OhCaptain

he thinks she treats the kids differently,

This jumped out at me because although her DH sounds like a useless prick, he’s not wrong in this instance is he?

Her four year old goes to bed alone because she’s rubbing Emma’s back for two hours to get her to sleep!

But their needs are different. You’d hope her father puts her to bed too sometimes so mum can have bedtime with the younger sibling too sometimes. Or maybe that’s when he drives off for some quiet time.

Absolutely @AIMD.

It wasn’t a criticism more that she does treat them differently - and I do wonder if she knows or notices that.

@TheSunIsStillShining

Why would she need to be assessed?? She is just a spoiled brat! She needs discipline and consequences. I always wonder why is it that in similar situation the parents want to shy away from responsibility... I'm not actually berating any parent, it's more like a cultural thing and lack of parenting education.

At one point in primary I had time and volunteered a lot with a few classes. the amount of tagged asd children was horrendous. And I would bet half of them would have just needed proper parenting, not a diagnosis that let's them off without ever learning to be responsible for their actions.

Is that an ‘expert’ opinion?! 😂

Go home, and then in a week or so tell your friend you'd much prefer to meet up without children in future, so you can have a proper catch up and enjoy your time together without both of your children distracting you.

Emma needs a square meal, regular bedtimes, regular meal times, firm and consistent boundaries for about 4 weeks or so. Minimal choices.

OP , stick it out and don't repeat.

Her four year old goes to bed alone because she’s rubbing Emma’s back for two hours to get her to sleep!

Where is the Dad at bedtime?

2 hours of undivided attention.....well worth the effort.

7 days a week?

Where is the Dad at bedtime?

Off being a useless prick. Like I said...

Where is the Dad at bedtime?

Maybe he's spoken to his wife on numerous occasions about trying different tactics rather than lying with their child for 2 hours to get them to sleep, but she refuses, or gives up at the first hurdle.

I wouldn't be on board with the "lying in bed with my child from 8pm to 10pm" technique either.

I wouldn't be on board with the "lying in bed with my child from 8pm to 10pm" technique either.

Would you also just fuck off out of the house for a few hours until it was all over? Or would you support your wife and children?

Depends really, we don't know what's gone on with the husband and wife, do we?

Like I said, he could have suggested and wanted to try all kinds of different stuff, I remember when DS was a toddler and was waking every hour or so, DH always wanted to take the easy way out of just bringing him into bed with us every fucking night rather than trying/persevering with anything else, and yes I got to the point where I wanted to fuck off out for a decent nights sleep and leave him to it.

We're not in their relationship so we don't know.

Reading people say that Emma is a brat etc makes me fear for my son - all of your bullet points are things he has done - he has ASD. Girs are much less likely to be recognised as autistic - I wouldn't be so sure she is NT

@pumper the way people parent is their choice. I wouldn't spend 2 hours every night rubbing my child's back. If my friend chooses to be a helicopter mum that's her choice. Her husband doesn't have to do the same.

Didn’t think the dad was on the holiday, from my reading of the original post?

His behaviour is worth a whole thread on its own, by the sound of it!

At this point, I don't think Emma's NT/Not NT status really matters. We can't know, OP can't know for sure and the child's own mother may not know. And even if somebody did know for sure, they couldn't fix the problem in the remaining time.

What matters is the holiday is apparently no fun for anyone. I think OP should tell her that it's too much for her daughter and is making her condition worse, and go home. She doesn't need to be too specific about it, but with a child who is newly diagnosed and may be still adjusting to medications etc, I think the kindest thing would be to take her home and let her gets lots of rest.

[quote whereorwhere]@pumper the way people parent is their choice. I wouldn't spend 2 hours every night rubbing my child's back. If my friend chooses to be a helicopter mum that's her choice. Her husband doesn't have to do the same. [/quote]
So instead he just removes himself from the situation completely?

Such a low bar for fathers isn’t it? So low in fact that people are now imagining he’s tried absolutely everything and his wife actually wants to lie with her 8 year old for two hours every night instead of having an evening in peace. And he’s therefore justified in not doing a single thing to help his own child

5amonaSunday

This ghastly reminds me of the pig ignorant people who would tut loudly at my severely autistic DSis's outbursts.

But how would you deal with your DS trashing the pharmacy as described by the poster?

I don't think it's a low bar. As I have said I think she is the one over reacting and he is not rising to it - why should he have to parent the way she wants if it is excessive and not solving the issues

I was ‘Emma’ to an extent as a child. I also believe I have mild autism that I’ve never had investigated.

And I can say without a doubt that my mum’s approach made everything worse, not better. She would flick between totally babying me and being disgusted in public at how sensitive I was. She was the worst kind of snowplough helicopter parent (if those things can be done together). And I totally get why she did it but it has taken a lot of therapy to discuss it fully and it completely fucked up my ability to make and sustain relationships for a long time.

My point: for anxious children being wrapped in cotton wool and pandered to makes things worse, not better. If you want them to be strong, confident adults then let them experience some failure early so they can find out that they will survive it.

I really wish someone had told me as a child that I had the ability within myself to support myself without the need for anyone else’s help or approval. It would have saved a lot of heartbreak and depression.

@whereorwhere

I don't think it's a low bar. As I have said I think she is the one over reacting and he is not rising to it - why should he have to parent the way she wants if it is excessive and not solving the issues

And how’s his parenting if he’s off in his car for two hours every night?

Genuinely, I don't for one minute think that 'Emma' is NT. She hasn't been assessed and diagnosed, but I'd bet my last penny that she isn't NT.

DD2 was diagnosed with ASD when she was 11. Until then, she was being 'sensitive', fixated, hysterical, literal, etc. She once became hysterical because a teacher sent home some song lyrics to practice and I had to try and find the music online. The chorus repeated with 4 lines, but at school it had 6. She was distraught. DD2 completely lost it when I tried to recreate a number grid, because the one at school had an extra line somewhere. She went wild when I tried to make her put her tights on after a dance class. She didn't want to wear tights, but she also couldn't bear the thought of wearing shoes without socks, definitely couldn't walk with bear feet and wouldn't let me carry her.....I didn't have socks. I could go on all night.

DD1 was also 'normal' and I was a fussy parent with a nursing background who had swallowed the text books. I was neurotic. Except I wasn't, and when she started falling over, she was finally diagnosed with a brain malformation, epilepsy, and global developmental delay.

Your friend is struggling with a complex child whose needs aren't being met. However so are you!! This isn't working. I don't think you need to blame Emma, or defend your DD. Simply say "DD is much more poorly than I thought she'd be and she needs to rest it off at home. We're going to go home and you can enjoy the last few days of the holiday."

We went bowling for the first time without DD2 today. She very eloquently said that although I would be sad if she didn't come, she would be sad if she did. She was quite happy staying at home and she'd be miserable if she had to go to a place with lots of people.

The poor family needs help.
Go home and enjoy what you can of the 3 days
It might be the catalyst for the parents to seek help.