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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

On holiday with friend and her kids; it's not going well

542 replies

GlummyMcGlummerson · 22/08/2020 11:35

For context, my DD (8)was diagnosed a few weeks ago with a (mild) neurological condition. As part of this she has good days and bad days - good days she’s a normal 8yo with a normal routine, bad days she get dizzy spells, nausea, headaches (usually triggered by noise or bright lights) and sleeps a lot. She’ll have a 1-2 hour nap and then 14-15 hours at night. I am essentially waiting to see if she gets over it on her own before considering treatment, on advice of her doctor.

We (me, DD and 4yo DS) are on week-long UK holiday with my friend and her kids who are the same age as mine, a couple of hours from where we live. My friend’s 8yo - lets call her Emma - is a sensitive child, always has been, my friend has discussed it with me before, but I never gave it too much thought, my own DD can certainly be sensitive. However we are now on day 4 of the holiday, and living in close quarters with them I’ve realised she’s VERY over sensitive and it’s affecting everyone’s enjoyment of the holiday, and more importantly my DD’s condition. Emma is NT.

A few examples
⁃ they were colouring the other day and Emma went slightly over the lines in her picture. She burst into tears, blamed her mum because her mum was talking to me, and cried for half an hour, chucking her paper in the bin
⁃ - they put a “play” on for us the other night and Emma jumbled up for words. She got really upset, sat on the floor sobbing with her arms folded and refused to finish the play, which annoyed DD the others as they wanted to show us.
⁃ She stubbed her toe on the sofa yesterday and had a totally OTT reaction. She grabbed her foot, rolled around on the floor and screamed the most high pitched scream I’ve ever heard, relentlessly, for 20 minutes. I had to take DD out the room as it brought on a headache. If you overheard you’d think she’d have been stabbed. Her toe was fine, no break and no bruise.
⁃ We went for a picnic yesterday and when we packed up we told the kids that they all had to carry something back and we gave Emma the (lightweight) picnic blanket to carry. After a couple of minutes of walking back to the lodge, and heard a shriek. We turned around and she was about 10m away sitting on the ground crying hysterically. She said it was because the blanket was too heavy then we all left her behind. My friend had to carry for uphill back to the lodge and she cried all the way.

It’s lots of little things all the time. As to not drip feed, my friend’s DH has said before (in front of my friend) he thinks Emma’s sensitivity is exacerbated by her mum babying her. I (secretly) agree - she carries her a lot because she “gets tired legs” - such as round the supermarket, or from a restaurant to the car, or out of someone’s house. She also apologises to her a lot where I don’t think it’s necessary - she apologised for “making” her go over the lines when colouring. She also lays with her every night til she falls asleep - singing a lullaby or scratching her back, for about 1-2 hours. Her 4yo goes to sleep alone! The last 3 nights I’ve looked forward to having a bottle of wine with my friend, but she doesn’t usually come down til 10pm from putting Emma to bed. She’s attempted making her fall asleep alone before but had little success.

Anyway DD has been quite good about Emma’s tantrums considering she hasn’t been well, and every day has been a “bad day” for her. But last night when DD started to feel sleepy around 6pm, and Emma wanted her to play a game. DD said no she just wanted to watch a bit of TV, and Emma has a strop and told her mum that DD was a “bad friend”. At that point DD burst into tears and said to me, in front of Emma, that this is a rubbish holiday and Emma is ruining it 😬 well, merry hell broke loose and I took DD to bed to try and diffuse the situation.

Me and my friend had a bottle of wine and a bit of a grumble last night about it all, she said she has a daily struggle with Emma being so sensitive and her DH goes out the house for hours at a time to sit in a car park because he can’t stand the noise.

When I woke DD up today she said that she feels sick all the time and wants to go home Sad. TBH I feel the same way, I’m sick of the shrieking and whilst I feel sorry for my friend it’s making it an unenjoyable holiday.

I figure I have 4 options:
1. Go home - say DD just isn’t well enough (DS is very chilled out and likely wouldn’t mind this but I’m loathe to cut his holiday short)
2. Tell my friend how Emma’s behaviour is affecting DD and ask her to speak to her or step in before it escalates
3. Do more as a family of three separately from the other family and maybe just meet them for dinner
4. Say nothing, they’re kids and will get over it
WWYD?

OP posts:
Pumperthepumper · 22/08/2020 17:47

@Starksforthewin

God that child sounds horrific. There are FAR too many children like this nowadays, being babied by , usually, their mother, long beyond the age it would be appropriate.

I wouldn’t be able to refrain from giving the other mother some home truths about Emma and HER parenting, before heading home for the last few days, so that your daughter gets the chance to enjoy herself.

Nothing for the dad who’s washed his hands of his own kid?
ancientgran · 22/08/2020 17:47

Oh I forgot I think being in hospital aged 2 in the days when parents were advised not to visit as it just upset children didn't help.

RiotAndAlarum · 22/08/2020 17:47

I think options 3 or 1... and are you sure Emma is NT? It takes a lot of work to be like this out of "obnoxiousness". A nit-picking life, with loads of tantrums (even when her mother panders to her, it's not working!) is not fun.

I agree with others that the father is not helping... and maybe your friend, Emma's mum, is afraid to go for a diagnosis, fearing that her husband would be right out the door?

Grrretel · 22/08/2020 17:53

[quote Wolfgirrl]@Pumperthepumper

Em.....in case she’s not just a spoiled brat? In case she has underlying issues?

Not being goady, but how can you actually tell the difference?[/quote]
I suspect you start by spending several years training as a paediatrician, psychologist, speech therapist etc?

Obviously randoms on the internet won't be able to tell Confused

corythatwas · 22/08/2020 17:53

Em.....in case she’s not just a spoiled brat? In case she has underlying issues?

Not being goady, but how can you actually tell the difference?

That can be very, very difficult. Which is why it is as well to aim at a middle-ground between sensibly firm suggestions and suggestions that would be complete cruelty if the child turned out not to be NT.

For Ehlers Danlos Syndrome, which is one possibility suggested on this thread, the average time between someone first raising concerns and the actual diagnosis used to be 10 years. That is a long time for a parent to suspect there is something wrong but not be able to do anything about it. Now it's obvious that in those 10 years the child still has to be disciplined. But at the same time not to be damaged, physically or emotionally, by expectations they can't meet. It's a tricky balance.

A diagnosis helps in that it gives you permission to organise your thoughts, to work out in advance what is possible, what might work, and what is never going to work so we don't even go there. It allows you to verbalise those distinctions when making plans with a friend. And it allows you to plan an array of suitable disciplinary measures that you don't have to back down from when you realise they can't work.

managedmis · 22/08/2020 17:53

Just go home. Your mate knows why

JimminyCricketwhites · 22/08/2020 18:01

Emma sounds like she may have ASD (both my dc are not NT).

oakleaffy · 22/08/2020 18:09

@TheSunIsStillShining

Why would she need to be assessed?? She is just a spoiled brat! She needs discipline and consequences. I always wonder why is it that in similar situation the parents want to shy away from responsibility... I'm not actually berating any parent, it's more like a cultural thing and lack of parenting education.

At one point in primary I had time and volunteered a lot with a few classes. the amount of tagged asd children was horrendous. And I would bet half of them would have just needed proper parenting, not a diagnosis that let's them off without ever learning to be responsible for their actions.

Yes!!! So true. Good food, boundaries, exercise.. The amount of parents one sees being 'ruled' by young children is startling.

A ghastly girl trashed a Pharmacy , while we were all waiting for prescriptions, and her mother lamely announced ''She has dyspraxia''.... The mother just feebly watched as the child threw bottles of shampoo about, stood on a shelf, sending it crashing to the floor, and the mother did nothing.

It seems to be much more prevalent that labels are slapped on kids these days.

Girlyracer · 22/08/2020 18:13

Go home. If you went on holiday with your friend, I assume you were close, so I don't know why you didn't know this kid was an attention seeking drama lama.

FancyAnOlive · 22/08/2020 18:14

My younger dd behaves very like Emma and she has an ASD diagnosis. I wouldn't rule it out - loads of 8 y o autistic girls are roaming around undiagnosed! The perfectionism, rigidity, inability to deal with what would be mild pain or discomfort to many, inability to go to sleep without parent next to them...I'm not diagnosing her over the internet but saying it may be the case!

Notthetoothfairy · 22/08/2020 18:18

3

OhCaptain · 22/08/2020 18:19

he thinks she treats the kids differently,

This jumped out at me because although her DH sounds like a useless prick, he’s not wrong in this instance is he?

Her four year old goes to bed alone because she’s rubbing Emma’s back for two hours to get her to sleep!

Intelinside57 · 22/08/2020 18:20

I think the "why" is much less important than getting your poorly daughter away so that she can have a rest. So go home.

drspouse · 22/08/2020 18:26

85% of children with dyspraxia also have ADHD. So parents who so far have the diagnosis of one but not the other may think their child's behaviour is explained by DCD but it isn't the whole story.
My DS

FancyAnOlive · 22/08/2020 18:31

@TheSunIsStillShining

Why would she need to be assessed?? She is just a spoiled brat! She needs discipline and consequences. I always wonder why is it that in similar situation the parents want to shy away from responsibility... I'm not actually berating any parent, it's more like a cultural thing and lack of parenting education.

At one point in primary I had time and volunteered a lot with a few classes. the amount of tagged asd children was horrendous. And I would bet half of them would have just needed proper parenting, not a diagnosis that let's them off without ever learning to be responsible for their actions.

Children are not diagnosed as autistic because they need 'proper parenting'! And it is not a diagnosis that 'lets them off' responsibility FFS. Please go and read the NAS website so you can learn a bit more and stop judging both parents and children because you don't understand. Discipline and consequences are not useful parenting tools for all children.
FiveToFour · 22/08/2020 18:32

I wonder if Emma really is NT - and for example if her mother is having to settle her to sleep,but not her little brother that suggests a 'problem' with the child rather than the parenting to me. My DD isn't NT,she used to have all sorts of meltdowns and was definitely "sensitive". ( she had one amazing friend who just let it all wash over her,she would try to comfort and calm but basically was just " that's what DD is like" , bless her Smile)
Poor Mum,poor you,and your DD....I do think you should go home if DD wants you to,it doesn't sound as if you are having much fun.And I'd talk to your friend but please don't start from the assumption that she is just crap at parenting Emma.

PhilSwagielka · 22/08/2020 18:32

@user32723

I'd put money on Emma being hypermobile and or dyspraxic (they often go hand in hand). This would explain her getting tired legs all the time, feeling overwhelmed falling behind carrying the picnic blanket, stumbling over her words, stubbing her toe, over reacting to the colouring in accident (because she was probably concentrating so hard to do it but still messed it up). If you are hypermobile it means you have to put more effort in to do every day basic tasks, just walking a short distance is twice as much effort, you get worn out much more easily. This would also be a root cause of her low self esteem and subsequent over sensitive nature because she is probably not very good at a lot of physical things. I imagine with your day trips and walking and activities and maybe swimming etc Emma will be feeling worn out and yet doesn't have an obvious reason like your daughter who is probably naturally better at things like remembering words to songs and plays, running, cartwheels, dancing and colouring and who is gently being asked all the time if she feels tired and needs a rest etc because of her recent condition.

I really don't think it is fair for posters to blame mum for Emma's behaviour. There are some really horrible accusations here. If she settles Emma to bed but not the younger sister then that is pretty solid evidence that she is instinctively parenting on need and not pandering. Also she may be more likely to pander to her (such as saying sorry about the colouring) because she was thinking of everyone else and trying to stop the meltdown as soon as possible, she was probably mid conversation with you and felt torn between a long drawn out battle with her in front of you or picking her battle and calling her down. How she parents publicly on holiday is not necessarily indicative of what she does the majority of the time. If she's worn out and stressed about the behaviour she was probably just trying to keep her cool.

Tbh I'm more annoyed at the dad than the mum. The mum just sounds worn out and at her wits' end.
5amonSunday · 22/08/2020 18:34

It seems to be much more prevalent that labels are slapped on kids these days.

So annoying when labels get in the way of snide judgement.

This ghastly poster reminds me of the pig ignorant people who would tut loudly at my severely autistic DSis's outbursts.

YesIDoLoveCrisps · 22/08/2020 18:34

How do Emma’s siblings behave? I have a friend of mine that behaves this way to her ‘Emma’, her son is completely ignored. He’s a polite and well behaved boy but in the same way Emma has learned to get 100% of the attention and drama he’s learnt to have none.

whereorwhere · 22/08/2020 18:34

Emma sounds like my DBFs daughter. The issue is her mother. She panders to her every whim and so she knows if she makes a fuss she will get her own way. The father doesn't pander to it which is right but from the outside you would think he was leaving DBF to it. Frankly if the mother chilled out and ignored her I'm sure she'd be fine

SoloMummy · 22/08/2020 18:36

@GlummyMcGlummerson

Definitely option 3
If pushed I'd then explain why.

Pumperthepumper · 22/08/2020 18:38

@whereorwhere

Emma sounds like my DBFs daughter. The issue is her mother. She panders to her every whim and so she knows if she makes a fuss she will get her own way. The father doesn't pander to it which is right but from the outside you would think he was leaving DBF to it. Frankly if the mother chilled out and ignored her I'm sure she'd be fine
The other really strange thing about this thread are the number of people prepared to slag off their friends on the internet! Also the number of absent dads who are doing ‘exactly the right thing’ - probably a lot easier to ignore your own child’s needs if someone else is doing it for you.

Always so surprised at how little it takes to be a good dad, and a shit mum.

Nicolastuffedone · 22/08/2020 18:39

Go home. Don’t see Emma again til she’s at least 40.....

paddyclampitt · 22/08/2020 18:39

I'd do option 3. Emma sounds like a right pain in the rump!

randomer · 22/08/2020 18:43

How has Mum of Emma got to her being 8 without wondering if all is well?
I don't think I could ( or would) carry an 8 year old? They are quite independent by that age?

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