to be concerned about the increasing sensitivity of our culture?

[CottonEyeJo]

I'm in a FB group for a moderately niche hobby. It's UK based, has about 5k members. The group is specifically about this hobby (a type of craft).

More and more people are posting "Off Topic" (OT) posts, which is pretty frustrating in its own right as if I wanted to read about people's washing machines, husbands, cat sick etc etc then I'd...well, I'd come on to AIBU!

But what's becoming really concerning, is the overuse of the term "Trigger Warning" (TW).

There is now a rule in the group, that if someone wishes to post about a "TW topic" they should post the title, and then put the rest in the comments - so that anyone who could be potentially "triggered" by the content, can safely avoid it.

Firstly - this seems like overkill to me, there's several topics that I avoid because I find them "triggering" upsetting or just plain irritating for various reasons, they reveal themselves in the first sentence or so of a post, so I just close and move on. A daily occurance on Mumsnet really

But more concerningly - it seems that EVERY topic is becoming a "trigger warning".

OT + TW - Make Up. I'll post in the comments

OT + TW - my Dog. I'll post in the comments

etc etc

Usually I'd laugh it off, but people are taking it so seriously - there was a post the other week about wedding dresses (also not related to the hobby) and someone went off on one in the comments about how they had just gone through a divorce, and the topic "triggered" them - AND THE POST WAS REMOVED!

We had one woman get really irate and flouncy because someone was talking about makeup - and the flouncer was vegan and very anti-make up, so reading a post about makeup triggered her anxiety and that was apparently the poor poster's fault - again, admin sided on the flouncer and the post was disabled.

It's just become a bit bonkers - the FB page has become more of a mental health forum (lots and lots and lots of posts about people's depression and anxiety etc etc) which may explain why it's a particularly sensitive space, but I'm seeing it elsewhere as well.

I personally feel that - by and large - a person's mental health (in regards to being "triggered" at least) should be, first and foremost, their own responsibility - and that the onus is on them to avoid topics should they find them unbearable, not for the rest of the population to moderate their language so that every possible trigger is omitted.

I'd also add that if just seeing a line about a stranger's dog dying, or wedding announcement or pregnancy is enough to set someone off in a mental health spiral - siginificant medical intervention should be in place and that person should be taking steps to avoid social media.

YANBU. It's ridiculous what the term "trigger" has become - it had genuine applications at the beginning in terms of PTSD, warning of graphic descriptions of rape/sexual assault etc.

Personally one that sticks in my mind was watching Saw 2 - there is, out of nowhere, a scene where a woman is cutting her wrists with razorblades. That genuinely "triggered" me as I have a history of self-harm and it brought me straight back to that headspace. I felt dizzy and ill seeing it. However, using the term in the context of "you can't talk about makeup because I'm a vegan" is, imo, insulting to those who experience real triggers.

@XDownwiththissortofthingX

*I also strongly believe taht many people online lie about the MH issues. Which is super shitty thing to do*

I have to admit, I find the sheer preponderance of mumsnetters who claim to have ASD/SEN children, Narc husbands and former partners, and various psychiatric conditions themselves, ASD parents/siblings/grandparents all a bit

The impression you'd get just going by mumsnet is that 95% of ALL children are ASD/SEN, and that 95% of ALL men are abusive narcissists

Is it not selection bias? That people who have mental health difficulties or abusive relationships or children with ASD are more likely to need an outlet for it, and especially those with MH issues are likely to be online more as they can shut themselves off from real life (myself included)?

Is it not selection bias? That people who have mental health difficulties or abusive relationships or children with ASD are more likely to need an outlet for it, and especially those with MH issues are likely to be online more as they can shut themselves off from real life (myself included)

Perhaps an element of that, yes, however it's become the norm on mumsnet to automatically diagnose anyone who displays the slightest hint of self-interested behaviour as a dangerous psychopathic narcissist. Threads are full of women dismissing other women's male partners' claims of being depressed based on no evidence whatsoever, meanwhile, people are told to take all sorts of extreme actions to remedy situations that are everyday occurrences, because the general perception is that absolutely nobody has any resilience anymore, and the solution to any sort of set-back is therapy, drugs, and a label to apply to an 'illness'.

While it's great that destigmatisation work appears to be having a meaningful effect in acceptance and awareness, it seems to have coincided with a marked rise in people not only claiming to be mentally unwell, autistic etc, but people also feeling emboldened enough to diagnose others with complex conditions based on nothing other than a few typed out lines on the internet, oh, (and yes I'm well aware of the irony of me saying this), totally dismiss out of hand the possibility that someone else might actually be ill, based on no evidence other than their own totally misinformed prejudices.

It's become fashionable to be a self-appointed mental health expert, and it also apparent that it's become fashionable, for god knows what reason, to claim to be ill.

I think it's good that we're becoming more aware of hurting other people. I dont believe we have the moral right to talk or joke about anything we want and people have to be quiet about being upset. Its driving kindness towards others which is never a bad thing

To a certain extent I agree but where does it end? My dog died in 2018 and I miss her, so that means noone can ever mention their dog, right? I'm sure someone somewhere has lost a cat so thats out too.

My mum died when I was young so I dont wish to hear about anyone even mentioning their mother because it reminds me I dont have mine. I also lost my dad in 2017 so noone can mention their dad either.

My friend's child is autistic, so that topic is out. My husband isnt white and has been the victim of racism, so I dont want to hear a single mention of racism (even positive stories about how to combat it)

You see how ridiculous this is going to get? Where do you draw the line because for every topic that exists, someone somewhere will be "triggered" by it.

I was in a group where there was a bunfight because someone neglected to add a TW on a topic about cameras
If that was the one where the topic was about teenage children wanting to try out photography as a hobby (and asking which beginner camera to buy), I have also seen that, ridiculous.

Sadly the acceptance and better understanding of MH had a side effect that attention seekers and shit people with crap behaviour now can latch onto it.
It's absolutely great the stigma is going and that people can talk about it and get help and support needed but yeah. But nothing is ever perfect so all good comes with something bad. It's a shitty, shitty thing to do to use it for excuse or attention.

I personally feel that - by and large - a person's mental health (in regards to being "triggered" at least) should be, first and foremost, their own responsibility - and that the onus is on them to avoid topics should they find them unbearable, not for the rest of the population to moderate their language so that every possible trigger is omitted.

I'd also add that if just seeing a line about a stranger's dog dying, or wedding announcement or pregnancy is enough to set someone off in a mental health spiral - siginificant medical intervention should be in place and that person should be taking steps to avoid social media.
I absolutely agree with that. People shouldn't be told they can't have normal conversations because someone finds it upsetting.

I do wonder if these people demand this irl as well or if they are just enjoying the power trip online.

I agree, OP. It’s nice to be considerate, but the way people are becoming so hyper sensitive is crazy.

I actually once knew someone who did have a genuine mental health condition who had so many triggers just a normal conversation was a minefield. You never knew when someone would set her off bawling because they talked about their dog and it reminded her of a dead childhood pet. It was an extremely awkward situation

My friend's child is autistic, so that topic is out. My husband isnt white and has been the victim of racism, so I dont want to hear a single mention of racism (even positive stories about how to combat it)

Also if we take that approach those things will become stigmatised again.

I've been kicked out of FOUR veganism Facebook groups for telling off people who post about mangos curing cancer or somesuch bollocks. People say I'm "being negative".

Your group sounds a bit odd. I’m in a mental health peer support group on FB and people only post those warnings about abuse, self-harm and pregnancy loss - which are totally reasonable to warn about.

I’m now only in two fb groups (well three if you count the football one dh added me into) because one by one they did this. These three have shit hot mods who pounce on anyone going off piste. The football one is the toughest, run by two women. As you can imagine it attracts a good share of racist,sexist and plain awful dickwads. They tell offenders to fo sharpish.
The worst one I was in was an embroidery group. Purity spiral.

I moderate a sober group and even posting a wine glass is 'triggering' for fucks sake! To give you an idea, person posts a pic of a wine glass containing ginger beer with a recommendation to try posh ginger beer. I have requests to remove the image because its just too 'upsetting'. Now, given that you can't turn on the tv without alcohol appearing to be drunk or go to a supermarket to see vodka behind the till this baffles me.
If your sobriety is so fragile that you can't even look at a fucking stemmed glass then you have a lot more work to do.

I am sure much of this came from good intentions, as we know the road to hell is paved that way.

We have a mishmash of morals and ethics now Christianity is no longer the majority. You have people who are cultural Christians not following the faith, many other faiths and athiests all with their own version of the "be kind movement " I await a Ricky Gervais tablet type scene from The invention of lying to end this social chaos, because people obviously think they know better and don't like the previous set in stone divind command universal moral code.

@SnuggyBuggy

I actually once knew someone who did have a genuine mental health condition who had so many triggers just a normal conversation was a minefield. You never knew when someone would set her off bawling because they talked about their dog and it reminded her of a dead childhood pet. It was an extremely awkward situation

Absolutely nothing you can do in those situations. I've come into contact with a couple of people down the years who are exactly the same. Obviously, nobody normal goes out of their way to offend, and you make as many allowances as is practicable, but the world keeps turning regardless, everyone else has to get on with their lives. It's unfortunate, but everyday ordinary things are going to trigger that individual. The world does not revolve around them though, as callous as that might seem.

One of them I met on a college course specifically focused on mental health stigma, treatments, activism etc. To their credit, they knew full well going in that the subject matter was going to be extremely uncomfortable for them, and yes, they did leave the room frequently and required regular consoling and emotional support. They were completely accepting of the fact that the issues were entirely theirs to deal with though, and never once complained about being 'triggered' or any apparent insensitivity.

Actually, in one of the only vegan groups I'm still allowed in, a woman who was trying to get people to like her Instagram account posted a picture of three slabs of watermelon cut and piled up to look like a tired cake with some raspberries on top. Caption was something like "my beautiful fresh cake with berries". After the inevitable good natured pointing out that if you ordered a slice of cake in a cafe and got a slab of raw watermelon you might feel a bit short-changed the poster went MENTAL. She was absolutely FURIOUS, she went through every comment (and there were like 300 of them) telling everyone how rude and stupid they were. Then others flapped in to comfort her and argue she was being "shamed" and "if that's what SHE calls a cake, then it's a cake" its a fucking watermelon It was so bizarre.

@SchrodingersImmigrant

I don't think it's a sensitivity itself. It's a power trip. One can go and shut down any discussion about anything. A power trip.

Yup.

I feel I am swimming around in a soup of various sub social unwritten subjective rules, its confusing.

@OhWhatFuckeryIsThisNow

I’m now only in two fb groups (well three if you count the football one dh added me into) because one by one they did this. These three have shit hot mods who pounce on anyone going off piste. The football one is the toughest, run by two women. As you can imagine it attracts a good share of racist,sexist and plain awful dickwads. They tell offenders to fo sharpish. The worst one I was in was an embroidery group. Purity spiral.

Why am I not surprised about the embroidery group? Craft groups are some of the worst. Cf the knitting and Ravelry things.

I totally agree. I feel like trigger warnings have their place put previously they were for discussing things like sexual abuse/ assault where they might trigger flashbacks or for topics such as eating disorders/ self harm where they might trigger relapses in people struggling with MH disorders. They should be reserved for sensitive topics which are likely to trigger extreme distress in some people rather than anything which might raise a slightly upsetting or uncomfortable memory.

I also agree that there has to be some understanding of those who can be ‘triggered’ that you can’t always avoid upsetting things. I was raped in a hotel room and I appreciate TWs on threads discussing sexual assault and feel this is a reasonable expectation but i acknowledge it would be ridiculous for me to expect TWs on any thread mentioning hotels. If things were at a point where any mention of a hotel was causing flashbacks I think the onus on me would be to get help and support rather than to expect nobody to ever mention them around me again.

I quit being a union rep due to being increasingly expected to deal with this kind of behaviour. No the world does not revolve around you and you alone. It is most definitely used by a lot of people to enable them to not only get away with some pretty vile behaviour but to place the blame for it on others.

I dont believe we have the moral right to talk or joke about anything we want and people have to be quiet about being upset.

I think we do have a moral right to talk and joke about what we want. People can be upset or complain when something is done inappropriately or at the wrong place and time but we have the right to think them ridiculous when they complain about something prosaic rather than using their right to bugger off somewhere else.

Its driving kindness towards others which is never a bad thing.

I don't think that's so. I think it's an excuse for nastiness and is driving damage to civil societies ability to disagree well. I don't think most of the wokestazi I see pulling this stuff have good intentions at all.

I think trigger warnings have a genuine place for certain sensitive topics..
After my miscarriage I would have avoided anything about pregnancy loss.
I also remember being really upset by a movie just after my marriage ended that featured horrible emotional abuse right out of left field.
However, people definitely take it too far! I’m in a craft group that is a designated “virus free zone”, so anyone posting anything as innocuous even as “during lockdown..” or “while on furlough I made..” gets deleted.
And as above, if we dilute trigger warnings by overusing them for mild topics, they lose their meaning for issues that actually need them.

This place isn't much better.

People object to others posting the word 'spider'. What they do in real life when they actually encounter a spider is anyone's guess

@rosiethehen

This place isn't much better.

People object to others posting the word 'spider'. What they do in real life when they actually encounter a spider is anyone's guess

The thing is that if someone is triggered by a single word, how are they able to write it? By that they trigger themselves too? 😁