AIBU to not give him my blessing?

[Oscarsmom]

My dad was arrested and cautioned for accessing illegal porn. My mum died around the same time (6 years ago)

He has now met a woman he wants to start a relationship with. He says that he isn't going to tell her.

He has never been a physical threat, and has undergone counselling for what he refers to as his addiction.

We have all been through hell with this. We had to wait 2 years while the police got around to cautioning him - during that time, he wasn't allowed to discuss the nature of what he had been looking at, so our imaginations were running riot. They found 9 Category C images on his laptop.

We are only just starting to piece things back together. I've been suffering with severe anxiety and panic attacks throughout it all.

He is 79, and I understand he wants companionship but think it would be immoral and dishonest of him to not tell this woman, as I would want to know.

I'm interested to hear what other people think. AIBU to not give him my blessing?

It can’t be adult porn though can it? He wouldn’t have been arrested for accessing adult porn or half the men in the world would be in a cell! That’s why people are thinking child porn.

It should be her choice if she wants to be around a man who was convicted of such an offence.

That would be true if he had actually been convicted of anything. But he wasn’t.

@PlanDeRaccordement
That’s not correct.
You need to admit the full offence to receive a caution. It’s not simply a warning.

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@MMN123

I agree with your post too. A caution doesn’t mean guilty. It means there is no evidence to charge him with any crime whatsoever and so he’s received advice to be careful. This means he probably clicked on a link, was shocked and back out immediately. They know how many seconds you are on a webpage. It’s not his word this would be based on. And a 70+ person could very well not be fully up to date on internet safety.
And besides the OP is his daughter, she has no right to go to a prospective friend/companion for her father and just sabotage it with inflated accusations.[/quote]
I thought accepting a caution meant admitting guilt?

@Livelovebehappy

It can’t be adult porn though can it? He wouldn’t have been arrested for accessing adult porn or half the men in the world would be in a cell! That’s why people are thinking child porn.

Yes it could. The dark web includes illegal porn that is literally videos of adult rape plus physical assault. This is also illegal as it is nonconsenting sex. Often it is falsely advertised as “rough sex” Pornhub has major issues right now with illegal porn being uploaded showing rapes. They can’t catch it and take it down as fast as it is put out there.

I thought accepting a caution meant admitting guilt?

No, it doesn’t because you have no choice to accept or not accept when cautioned. It’s not an admission of guilt of a crime at all. It’s really the police saying, we think you are on the verge of maybe doing something illegal so we are warning you to be more careful so you don’t end up being charged with a crime.
An admission of guilt is called a confession plus a guilty plea for trial.

@PlanDeRaccordement
You are wrong. That’s not the case in English law

A police caution is a formal alternative to prosecution in minor cases, administered by the police in England and Wales. It is commonly used to resolve cases where full prosecution is not seen as the most appropriate solution.[1] Accepting a caution requires an admission of guilt.

[quote Wigglegiggle0520]@PlanDeRaccordement
That’s not correct.
You need to admit the full offence to receive a caution. It’s not simply a warning.[/quote]
The “offence” is a minor crime not worth prosecuting and all you admit is you did the offence (ie click a link that led to illegal porn) but the admission to the offence doesn’t make you guilty of actually intending to access illegal pornography. Which would have to be proven if you were prosecuted to be convicted and put on a sex offender register.

Furthermore, a caution is not a criminal conviction.

''A caution can be issued at the discretion of the police as a formal warning to somebody who admits to committing a criminal offence.
For an individual, accepting a caution means that they’ll be dealt with quickly and not need to go to court. ''

''Before you accept or refuse a caution it’s important to be aware of the possible consequences that it could have on you.

Although a caution is ‘spent’ immediately (under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act), it does form part of your criminal record and can come up on certain criminal record checks.''

hub.unlock.org.uk/knowledgebase/implications-accepting-police-caution/

This exactly the sort of situation where a mans relationship could be destroyed by gossip. His own daughter doesn’t know the details. No evidence this related to children. No charges brought. No conviction. No crime. Leave the man alone.

From Gov.uk
“Cautions are given to anyone aged 10 or over for minor crimes - for example writing graffiti on a bus shelter.

You have to admit an offence and agree to be cautioned. You can be arrested and charged if you don’t agree.

A caution is not a criminal conviction, but it could be used as evidence of bad character if you go to court for another crime.”

@PlanDeRaccordement

I thought accepting a caution meant admitting guilt?

No, it doesn’t because you have no choice to accept or not accept when cautioned. It’s not an admission of guilt of a crime at all. It’s really the police saying, we think you are on the verge of maybe doing something illegal so we are warning you to be more careful so you don’t end up being charged with a crime.
An admission of guilt is called a confession plus a guilty plea for trial.

Really? I always though a caution meant admitting guilt and a quick search online suggests it does too (obviously no substitute for proper legal knowledge😂).

Has that changed recently? Or maybe there’s different types of ‘cautions’ I’m mixing up?

In accepting a caution you are accepting guilt,
Possession of category c images of children means Dad is a paedophile and of course this poor woman should be told

“In English criminal law, intention is one of the types of mens rea (Latin for "guilty mind") that, when accompanied by an actus reus (Latin for "guilty act"), constitutes a crime.”

You need both to be guilty. Cautions are often used when it’s a minor crime and all you admit to is the actus reus, not the mens rea.

@MrsHound

In accepting a caution you are accepting guilt, Possession of category c images of children means Dad is a paedophile and of course this poor woman should be told

Where did OP say it was of children? Nowhere I can see.

It could even be as mild as pirated adult porn that he should have paid a fee to watch as that is also illegal.

@PlanDeRaccordement
You can be cautioned for a variety of offences.

A domestic abuser can be cautioned for an assault on a partner if they admit to it and it’s their first offence.

Personally I wouldn’t consider that minor. Not would I consider possession of indecent images minor but we can agree to disagree.

Not - nor

@PlanDeRaccordement Category C images refer to children and also acknowledge the purpose of viewing those images,
Mild adult porn is not illegal, a pervert looking at images of children is illegal

I don't think we should make a judgement on anybody without knowing all of the facts. (We may never know all the facts....)

The fact we know it is a Category C image would make me think it was an indecent image of a child.
The A, B and C rating are used for indecent images of children.

It would suggest it was an image which might not have been indecent in a different context.
Category C images depict some sexually suggestive content, either indicatively or in a nudist environment.
Adults in this situations would be legal.

Former criminal lawyer here. A caution most certainly does require a full admission of guilt. It’s quite a strict procedure, and I occasionally had an inspector refuse to issue a caution because it became clear that the client was backing away from the admission or hadn’t fully understood the implications. I also had the odd re-interview to make sure the criteria were met when a caution was on the table. It goes on your criminal record, and has to be declared in many situations.

And yes, you absolutely do have a choice as to whether to accept it.

“Category C images could encompass everything from commercially published images to family photographs. In cases involving these images, it is usually the intentions of the accused individual that are cross-examined, as images are not necessarily sexual in nature.”
www.lawtonslaw.co.uk/resources/how-indecent-images-are-graded-in-criminal-courts/

He received a caution. That’s all that is known.

@Oscarsmom Of course you shouldn't give him your 'blessing'. In fact I'd tell him in no uncertain terms that I was going to tell her myself.

It doesn't matter if it was child abuse pictures of the worst sort or pages torn from the underwear section of a catalogue. She deserves to know so she can make a decision with full knowledge of the facts.

@PlanDeRaccordement

“In English criminal law, intention is one of the types of mens rea (Latin for "guilty mind") that, when accompanied by an actus reus (Latin for "guilty act"), constitutes a crime.”

You need both to be guilty. Cautions are often used when it’s a minor crime and all you admit to is the actus reus, not the mens rea.

As in it would take resources from more serious investigations to prove that it was 'accidental' or not, weather they claim their friend Jim Bob borrowed their computer, they were set up, they were blackout drunk and high with fuck all idea what they were doing. Or whatever other excuse.

The caution proves that they had the images.