Page 2 | AIBU to not give him my blessing?

2bazookas · 21/08/2020 16:52

Do you mean indecent images of children?
categories of child pornography:

Category A – this is the most serious category and relates to images involving penetrative sexual activity, sexual activity with an animal or sadism.

Category B – this category relates to images involving non-penetrative sexual activity.

Category C – this category concerns images which do not fall in to categories A or B.

such as erotic posing of children, images of their genitals etc

njf33 · 21/08/2020 16:54

OP, I'll fly in the face of the pitchfork wavers on the thread who because they lack the critical thinking to differentiate between a grooming/ abuse offence and this, will tell you he should be in prison and you are complicit, etc. Please ignore that hyperbole.

As to your dad, I think let him deal with it as he sees fit. He was cautioned by the police, that's an indication of how they and the CPS viewed the level of offending. It was 6 years ago at a time when he had just lost your mum (presumably after a marriage of 30-40 years or more). The number of images suggests more of an accidental than a deliberate seeking out (I have some knowledge of these type of offences in a professional capacity and it's very unusual for the offender not to have hundreds or even thousands of images on their computer after just viewing a few pages). I'll await someone piping up that I'm minimising. I'm not. He's accepted the caution, sought help - he's done everything that could be expected of him.

I actually think that the lady may understand if he explained it carefully and in context. However it is understandable that he would be fearful of an adverse reaction or being branded a 'paedo'...at his time of life just let him be happy. He's clearly not a threat to anyone (and again, if the police thought he was, if there was anything aggravated about the offence, he would have been prosecuted and given a SHPO/ put on the register. He wasn't).

AlternativePerspective · 21/08/2020 16:56

So let’s call a spade a spade. Your dad is a paedophile, and you’re minimising it.

Does he have a relationship with your children?

If my dad was convicted of downloading child abuse images he would be dead to me, so whoever he got involved with wouldn’t be on my radar because I would never speak to him again.

Stop minimising the fact that your father is a paedophile.

2bazookas · 21/08/2020 17:00

She may have children in her family or social circle, neighbours, who would visit them at home, or she would take your father to their homes. With his mobile phone.

You MUST tell her.

AlternativePerspective · 21/08/2020 17:00

OP, I'll fly in the face of the pitchfork wavers on the thread who because they lack the critical thinking to differentiate between a grooming/ abuse offence and this, will tell you he should be in prison and you are complicit, etc. Please ignore that hyperbole. should there be a difference then? Just because he didn’t groom/abuse the children himself doesn’t mean he didn’t gain pleasure from seeing others do it.

And nobody has suggested the OP should be in prison or that she is complicit, stop being so dramatic.

But fact is that the man is a sex offender. No amount of dressing that up is going to change that.

If the OP wants a relationship with him then fine, but hopefully it won’t be to the detriment of her children. And if her children do end up abused by this man, then yes, she will be complicit.

Goosefoot · 21/08/2020 17:04

It's difficult to know what the images really were or how exactly your father was using them from what you've said. Images of that type aren't necessarily pornographic in the normal sense, so people assuming they involved child abuse are, in fact, assuming.

Still, even in a best case scenario, he probably should tell her. It would be a nasty shock and she'd very much resent it and be angry I'd think. Maybe put it to him that it could come out, and especially f she has grandkids around it could put her in a very difficult position where it would seem like she was irresponsible, damaging her family relationships.

CleverCatty · 21/08/2020 17:06

if it's child abuse and she has access to any children whether DGC or great nephews etc I'd tell her. she has a right to know as they might be in danger.

CleverCatty · 21/08/2020 17:08

My DM had her stepfather sort of sexually abuse her (he encouraged her into bed with her DM and stroked her) - why her DM said nothing I will never know, she was 13 apparently...

My DM took us to see them at their house - but she never let us be alone with her stepfather though he was friendly giving us chocolates, money for birthdays etc.

njf33 · 21/08/2020 17:09

I clearly didn't say the OP should be in prison. Do read posts before you start criticising them.

And yes in law there is a very big difference between the offences. It's why the OP's dad was given a caution. If he'd committed a grooming or abuse offence he would have been charged and given a custodial sentence. So the law sees the offences very differently, even if you are unable to.

Try educating yourself a little; you will then understand that offences relating to CSA are not necessarily gateway offences; just because an offender has committed such an offence doesn't automatically mean they have or will ever abuse or groom a child, or commit a similar offence in future. For this reason where an offence resulting in a caution or non custodial sentence is involved, in my experience social services rarely prevent the offender from contact with children of their family. Because again, they don't consider there is any risk to that child or children of a contact offence. HTH.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 21/08/2020 17:09

@Whatisthisfuckery

Well, if it was child sexual abuse then I would tell her because your father should not be alone with children, and he should be watched very carefully when in the company of other people around children.

If it was abuse images of adult women I’d still tell her, because if her prospective new partner gets off on the sorts of things that are illegal in porn, which let’s face it, is pretty extreme considering the vile abuse that passes for mainstream nowadays, then she needs to be warned, lest he decide he wants to enact any of that stuff on her.

In short, if a potential partner had vile depraved sexual tastes I’d bloody well want to know.

I also think the age factor is a red herring here, because a 79 year old man presumably isn’t going to be having a relationship with a young fit and strong woman, so there will still be a strength and power imbalance.

All of the above.

Mumoftwo1994 · 21/08/2020 17:12

@Oscarsmom

My dad was arrested and cautioned for accessing illegal porn. My mum died around the same time (6 years ago)

He has now met a woman he wants to start a relationship with. He says that he isn't going to tell her.

He has never been a physical threat, and has undergone counselling for what he refers to as his addiction.

We have all been through hell with this. We had to wait 2 years while the police got around to cautioning him - during that time, he wasn't allowed to discuss the nature of what he had been looking at, so our imaginations were running riot. They found 9 Category C images on his laptop.

We are only just starting to piece things back together. I've been suffering with severe anxiety and panic attacks throughout it all.

He is 79, and I understand he wants companionship but think it would be immoral and dishonest of him to not tell this woman, as I would want to know.

I'm interested to hear what other people think. AIBU to not give him my blessing?

If she has grandchildren then tell her

Brieminewine · 21/08/2020 17:20

YABU to refer to the sexual abuse of children as ‘illegal porn’

Your dad is a pedophile, this woman deserves to know.

Bobbiepin · 21/08/2020 17:20

I think people are forgetting that there is consensual adult porn that is illegal. It is usually very violent and depraved. Either way, he broke the law in a way that is very relevant to a relationship and this woman should know about it before starting a relationship with him. If he didn't want to deal with the consequences of his actions he shouldn't be accessing illegal material.

Frankly though OP, if it was child sex abuse images I would have nothing more to do with him, forget any future relationships of his.

Yankathebear · 21/08/2020 17:24

I would want to know, wouldn’t you?

njf33 · 21/08/2020 17:29

Question: If the OP's dad had been cautioned for a minor violent offence, public order offence or a road traffic matter (maybe drink driving, although a caution would be pretty unlikely there) would you all still be so adamant that this lady must be told?

I'll lay odds you wouldn't.

But isn't there the same risk he might reoffend, or do worse whatever the offence? Or do you think that if it's driving or public order or assault or even theft that he might NOT do it again....

so why is this specific offence different to any of those?

lyralalala · 21/08/2020 17:32

It should be her choice if she wants to be around a man who was convicted of such an offence.

Removing that choice from her says a lot about how much respect he has for her, and probably for women in general.

RunningFromInsanity · 21/08/2020 17:32

If it involves children then yes as she has a grandchild she needs to know.

Otherwise, as he was only cautioned, then its up to him whether he tells her or not.

WendyHoused · 21/08/2020 17:35

You would want to know, wouldn't you, OP? If you were entering a new relationship with someone?

lyralalala · 21/08/2020 17:36

@njf33

Question: If the OP's dad had been cautioned for a minor violent offence, public order offence or a road traffic matter (maybe drink driving, although a caution would be pretty unlikely there) would you all still be so adamant that this lady must be told?

I'll lay odds you wouldn't.

But isn't there the same risk he might reoffend, or do worse whatever the offence? Or do you think that if it's driving or public order or assault or even theft that he might NOT do it again....

so why is this specific offence different to any of those?

I would expect someone to divulge a violent offence to a partner - and I would expect there to be the same belief that a new partner should be told if, for example, the minor violent offence was against a partner.

It's faux naivety to pretend you can't see any reason why possession of child abuse images would be a bigger deal than a scrap in a bar.

The fact he's hiding it shows it's a bigger deal.

Viviennemary · 21/08/2020 17:39

He was only cautioned. If it had been really serious he would have been charged and put on a register. I wouldn't tell. In any case how did you find out if it was a caution. If you're worried I'd ask advice from the police.

2bazookas · 21/08/2020 17:53

GF "It's difficult to know what the images really were or how exactly your father was using them from what you've said. Images of that type aren't necessarily pornographic in the normal sense, so people assuming they involved child abuse are, in fact, assuming."

  They were  illegal indecent pictures of children, Category C.  He  accepted a police caution for that offence,   which means he  formally admitted  his guilt.

He had "counselling for his addiction" (which implies , it was a condition of the Caution.)

He has told the family only 9 images were found on his computer, yet he also calls his offence an addiction . That giveaway word indicates a much more established fixation or obsession with indecent pictures of children, than 9 images.

njf33 · 21/08/2020 17:55

It's not faux naivety at all.

A cautionable offence is a cautionable offence, irrespective of the nature of it.

Arguably, an offence that involved physical violence, however minor, or a driving infraction, might put this woman at much greater risk.

DianasLasso · 21/08/2020 18:01

@2bazookas

She may have children in her family or social circle, neighbours, who would visit them at home, or she would take your father to their homes. With his mobile phone.

You MUST tell her.

Absolutely this.

As someone who has received that phone call from the police ("Did you realise the relative you've just spent the day with along with your small child is on the sex offender's register?") you have to tell her.

And yes, I was fucking furious with the family members who knew and didn't tell me.

njf33 · 21/08/2020 18:03

2bazookas I would imagine, without wishing to speak for the OP, that her father had found himself addicted to porn (probably in the aftermath of the loss of his wife, although it could have been ongoing for years prior and simply escalated following this) and in seeking out different sites has also viewed these images. The number of images involved suggests he wasn't actively seeking images of CSA, albeit he clearly did view them.

I'm pretty sure that a course of treatment couldn't be made a condition of a caution, but if the OP's father had already sought help by the time a decision was made in relation to his offence, it may have been taken into account in making the decision to caution rather than prosecute as evidence of contrition.

InDeoEstMeaFiducia · 21/08/2020 18:05

You really must tell her.