Confused by this conversation, does anyone have an idea what went wrong

[SkatingWithPenguins]

I’d just used the self scan machine at the library. It’s broken, you normally just pile up the books but at the moment you need to open them to scan the barcode inside. Everytime you scan it opens a meaningless error message too. You have to click the x to close it. Annoying, but it works.

I was talking to my friend, librarian just finished a shift and in uniform, her son isn’t well and we were probably very deep in conversation in a corner. Very angry woman cut across us and said ‘the machine doesn’t work!’. My friend was approached from behind and was a bit wrong-footed, had jumped out her skin in surprise and as collecting herself (it was like someone shouting ‘boo’ from behind it was so sudden and loud). So I just smiled and said
‘It works, it’s just playing up. You need to open each book individually And scan the barcode inside. It’ll give you error messages, but ignore them and close them. The books will still be counted’
She glared at me- ‘IT DOESNT WORK!’
I’m, ‘give it a try, just open them’
‘IT DOESNT WORK, I have tried‘
‘Did you open a book?‘
So she throws them, closed, onto the machine and angrily points at the error message.
So I just said, calmly ‘the books need opening’. She picked them up, still both closed, and started flinging them back down to raise her voice more.
My friend then starting offering to do it for her (not really meant to with Covid rules, but was trying to diffuse it). Got as far as ‘shall I do it for-‘
The women then screamed at her, I’m not standing here being told off by you! I feel like I’m being told off! I’m going to the desk!
The new librarian on the desk looked over worried, people are mean to use the machines right now. I didn’t stay to see how it panned out.

The machine does have a sign on it explained how to currently use it.

She was about 30, seemed well presented and otherwise normal.

It’s bugging me as I’m struggling how it went so wrong, how I ended up being shouted at in public. I was genuinely happy to help her use the machine that annoys me, no edge to my voice.

I feel stressed round the shops right now. Hoggle that sounds awful and I quite understand walking out.

Op Happydays has reminded me of something you might find helpful: look into "mirroring."

Opening gambit of harassed user :"this isn't working!"
Saying "it does work," is not going to make for a useful exchange ime.
If you want to get involved ahead of staff then sympathise with the current problem and explain the fix.

Exactly this. If you don’t know how to deal with the public, don’t deal with the public. If some random got involved and kept telling me something that had an error message was working when clearly there was something not right with it, I’d not have been too polite to them either. I don’t need to be patronised by someone sticky beaking.

To everyone saying adults should be able to control every emotion, every minute of the day, how charmed your lives must have been to never once get to the situation where stress overwhelms you. Most of the rest of us are human and are likely to fail at some point in our lives.

Oh OP you sound really like my mum, she's tends to be a bit overhelpful, most of the time people appreciate it but sometimes people find it annoying. It's hard but you can't control other people's reactions, only your own. Think of all the times your have helped others and they have appreciated it and don't beat yourself up about your good intentions!

OP - I am so jealous that you are able to take books out of your library. Our council has closed all the branches and has kept the main town centre one open. You cannot browse the shelves, alternatively, you can take 3 books from a pre- selection of genres all packed up in a small carrier bag (can have up to 3 bags, 9 books at one time).

I tried to do this, entered the library, sanitised hands, went towards the desk where the books are kept, sanitised hands again. Made my choice, tried to look in the bag but the books had been placed spine down so had no idea what I was getting. Smiled at the library assistant and said I'll have to take them out to look and my hands were clean as I'd sanitised them twice. She glared at me and rudely said "its not just about your hands" - I put them back on the desk and walked out.

The WernethWife, this is it right now. Even banal things like visiting the library have become fraught.

To answer your 'how would such a person be thinking' question.

If I was the customer, perhaps in a hurry and had been unable to work the broken machine, I'd then spotted a librarian, waited for her to finish dealing with another person, then noticed she seemed to be indulging in a long personal chat in work time (fact: she was being unprofessional by doing this, in uniform, in her workplace), or perhaps butted straight in, in the hope that she could offer a quick one-phrase answer e.g. 'it's broken, take them to that desk', before carrying on her longer conversation... then the friend / customer had interposed herself and repeatedly told me I was wrong, the machine wasn't broken and I was doing it all wrong... I'd be pretty pissed off.

I'd be thinking 'I want to talk to the person who works here, could you just shut up please?'. I would probably find you bossy and interfering and might indeed feel like I was being told off - by the librairian's friend / another customer. WTF?

If you want to be helpful, you need to use your observational skills and your empathy, to consider how things look from the other person's perspective. Then exercise silence, or deference to professionals when appropriate, rather than just jumping in feet first.

Wasn't your friend a bit embarrassed by your behaviour?

I recall once, many years ago, trying to do a similar thing in a library. I'd just finished using the photocopier. The next customer asked me a question about how to use it. I started answering the question. A librairy assistant swept into view and said, rather brusquely, 'do you work here?' then proceeded to address the other customer. That went a little far the other way, in my view - I was just trying to be helpful and felt told off! But, it is reasonable that the people to answer questions about how things work in a library, are the library staff.

Something for you to ponder, given your background OP; 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions'.

You didn't do anything wrong, you were trying to be helpful. But if you wanted to try something different I think I'd have started with an empathetic statement, something like 'oh yes, I was having a lot of trouble with that earlier too'. Said with a big smile. ' I did get it to work though. I could explain what I did if you like'. Then leave it to them if they want the help.

I'd say that she probably felt she was being ignored, however unreasonable that might sound given you'd told her how to get it to work. She was cross & frustrated what she needed was a hand hold, "i'm really sorry it's not working, let's have another go" and helped her to get it to scan. People get irate when their needs aren't being met. People can be unreasonable but in a customer service role you need to anticipate and address their needs to keep things sweet. I should imagine your response came across as making her feel a bit stupid for not being able to do it.

Oh dear! Sounds like me on a certain time of the month!
I tend to avoid places when I'm feeling like that though.

Also remember that stressed people don't / can't listen attentively. They need to be engaged with calmly, in an 'I understand, let me help you' way, to calm their brain enough to hear you.

You report yourself as having jumped straight in, offering no reassurance or momentary 'befriending', before starting with your explanation. (You might think saying 'it does work' was reassuring but it wasn't, it was unexpected and contradictory, so confusing). A stressed person would just hear 'You're wrong, yackety, yackety, it DOES work, yackety, yack, you're wrong, yack, do this!'.

This is a typical example of someone who has their own 'stuff' and is projecting it on you (or any other given person on other days).

It's not about you, it's about them.

The only way to deal with it is to recognise it for what it is (their stuff and nothing to do with you), shrug your shoulders and get on with your day.

Don't take it to heart.

Some people with unresolved issues project and take it out on other people.

You all know these excuses are used by abusers towards their family members👀
"I am stressed from x and you said a wrong thing so I exploded"
"You annoyed me by trying to do x so I exploded"
"I am having a really bad day and you were just there and I needed to shout at someone"

Maybe. It's also the case that some people's 'stuff' results in a compulsion to be seen to be helpful, whether anyone actually feels helped or not, or to say things out loud just because they know them, with no thought for appropriateness or context.

Op wanted to know what could have gone wrong with her well meant intervention.

Giving an opinion on that doesn't mean excusing the shouting.

Off topic but I didn’t know libraries had re-opened! Ours are still firmly shut and I am so bored with our bedtime story books. I’d scream with joy if I could swap them for new ones.

And customer service staff are trained to deal with difficult members of the public and to avoid taking things personally.

That's why they should be allowed to do their jobs.

Jumping in as a random not-so-helpful customer, then taking things personally, was a bit of an own goal for OP.

Yep. I’m afraid it would annoy me if I asked a member of staff and another customer butted in. Not to the point of being rude, but I would find it annoying.

Sorry if I repeat what someone else has said - haven't read every reply - but my first thought was that she is an anxious person and was getting embarrassed as well as agitated at not being able to work the machine. I know someone who gets very upset if something isn't straight forward, and will lash out, almost like they're trying to hide their embarrassment with aggression and turn it on someone else. Not helpful to you, I know.

I think sleepyhead nailed it.

Standard stress reaction for a certain type of person - especially with regards to frustration with technology.

That's not to say that it's OK for these people to do it, indeed one too many of them caused me to burn out of my job with my own stress and anxiety (after 20 years of dealing with people like this) and I've not been able to work for three years since.

There are techniques for dealing with them which de-escalate the situation, as others have said, acknowledging the problem and then apologising or sympathising rather than dismissing and explaining tends to make things much better.
But these are things you learn on the job. they're useful skills for life in general but if you're not in customer service I wouldn't say that there's anything wrong with anyone for not knowing these skills nor being a natural at them.

There's nothing wrong with you, OP. It's natural to feel upset but you did nothing wrong. Just let it go.

@ClearTheDecks

Opening gambit of harassed user :"this isn't working!"

Saying "it does work," is not going to make for a useful exchange ime.

If you want to get involved ahead of staff then sympathise with the current problem and explain the fix.

It doesn't come across as rather patronising, doesn't it?

Well, now the OP has told us about her childhood I'd say the whole episode seems to have taken on a disproportionate importance to her and is not about Screaming Woman at all.

One of the best life changing pieces of advice i have ever heard is from the book "the four agreements" and that is: "dont take anything personally". 80% of people's reactions towards you are about THEM and their perceptions of the world and have nothing to do with you.

Here:

"Whatever happens around you, don’t take it personally… Nothing other people do is because of you. It is because of themselves. All people live in their own dream, in their own mind; they are in a completely different world from the one we live in. When we take something personally, we make the assumption that they know what is in our world, and we try to impose our world on their world"

Not to sound rude but you really arent that important to this person OP, I suspect she has other personal reasons for acting the way she did that have zero to do with you.

And customer service staff are trained to deal with difficult members of the public and to avoid taking things personally

No, we're not. We're thrown in front of the public after minimum amounts of training and paid minimum wage to be shouted at.

Any dealing with difficult members of the public we have to pick up on the fly and then go and cry out the back afterwards.

Some establishments may train their customer service people, but most don't.

She clearly wanted to talk to a member of staff (not you). If she said its not working, then a member of staff should have collected them and scanned them in.