Sexual harassment is an almost universal experience for women

[severeine]

I was having a conversation with a well-meaning male friend who was struggling to believe this. I think it is a case of not realising because he hasn't asked/spoken to enough women and isn't a perpetrator himself. For most women I think it is for to say this starts well before even the teen years and persists for 3 or more decades. I have experienced it myself, from school to work, in random situations and still do now. You don't need to be attractive, I am I suppose what you'd call average, you just need to be a woman, ideally unaccompanied. I was talking to one female friend who was harassed every single day by strangers when she lived in Paris, which is one place I've heard of it happening a lot, only it is everywhere. I wonder what your experiences have been?

men dominating and hijacking a thread about why women don't leave.

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Absolutely a common experience. Don't think my looks have ever been much above average and I've seldom dressed provocatively. Doesn't matter. I'm a woman so I'm a target

A group of friends and I were talking about this the other day. I was shocked to discover that we had all (6 of us) experienced some kind of sexual harassment as children. I just didn't realise how prevalent it is because it's not normally discussed. I have an almost 1 year old daughter and she has really made me think about how girls/women are treated.

I’ve had grief from men my whole life, nothing to do with attractiveness, most of the time they are rude and disparaging remarks. I’ve been shouted at in the street, in shops, had rude comments from complete strangers at parties. I’m very confident and I think they don’t like it.

Yes lots.

Worst was waking up to a guy groping me on a night train in Italy. Also unwanted touching by a guy on a train in the UK. He was thrown off by the conductor.

The usual guys pressing up against you unnecessarily on the tube. Had a guy stick his hand up my skirt.

Loads of comments on the street, even recently aged 44 a guy told me he was checking out my arse.

then there's the leering and cat calling from cars and vans as they drive past you. Dh and I have been doind loads more walking than usual in lockdown and he has commented several times on the number of guys that leer from cars at me. he was a bit shocked that it happened even when he was with me.

Also the guy that wouldn't leave me alone when I was walking down the street, until my neighbour shouted at him and told him I was only 13.

Women are also less likely to kill men for ignoring or rejecting them. There have been cases of this happening to women, like a guy running a woman over with his car for ignoring him.

Whoever mentioned Spain upthread, I had a friend who worked in Italy for a few years and while she made friends out there and enjoyed a lot about it, the one thing she does not miss is the constant sexual harassment.

I have the misfortune of having large breasts, which developed quite early. From the age of 12 or 13 I couldn't walk past a building site without vile comments, even if I was wearing my school uniform at the time. I couldn't even begin to count the number of times I've been groped over the years.

It happens all the time, during the lockdown I was cycling my bike - Sweaty, dressed in joggers, baggy t-shirt and helmet -not exactly looking like I was participating in a sanitary towel advert, a car full of teenage/early 20 year old ladS pulled up next to me and started commenting on my arse (not sure they could even see it under the t shirt) men at work, literally staring at your breasts whilst trying to talk with them, moving their chair to get in a better position to look at you legs. I’ve seen a lot worse happen to women esp at work.

Really the men might as well pull out their cocks and piss on you, it’s all about power and marking territory.

The most I have been sexually harassed was at secondary school by older boys, or when I was in my uniform. It was always 'just a joke' so I didn't feel like I could say anything. Still upsets me a bit to this day.

One of my earliest memories is if my friends teenage brother getting his dick out and asking to see " mine"
Then so many occasions as a teenager; being flashed, having bra straps pinged at school, skirt lifted etc
Being followed, a man on a bus on the seat behind me feeling my arse through the gap in the seat, indecent phone calls, a boyfriend's friend thinking it was funny to stick his hand up my skirt on a night out, a much older boss leering at my tits and commenting on how" mature" I looked.
Being on a bus, in my 30s with ds2 in a pram and a drunk spending the entire journey making comments to me- that time a really lovely young man stood up and deliberately placed himself between the bloke and me but the driver let it go despite it being at top volume.

I am old and fat now so am invisible.

Yep. From a very young age for me.

It definitely happens to pretty much every woman and girl. My daughter gets catcalled often and she’s 12. I wasn’t much older when it started happening to me. Happens less to me now I’m in my 30s and I’m overweight including in front of my children NAMALT but enough of them are unfortunately.

Whoever mentioned Spain upthread, I had a friend who worked in Italy for a few years and while she made friends out there and enjoyed a lot about it, the one thing she does not miss is the constant sexual harassment

My sister worked in Italy for a while and she found the harassment extraordinary. The amount of times she was called a fucking bitch or a lesbian because she said 'no' to their company was depressing. She is Irish and has a fairly quick wit about her and these guys would get genuinely upset that she would not only turn them down but pointed out a few home truths as well.

The amount of times she was called a fucking bitch or a lesbian because she said 'no' to their company was depressing.

This! This seems to be a universal thing for these men. You reject them and they hurl abuse at you. I’ve never known what to say in this situation. I wish I was more quick witted to take down these delicate snowflakes.

A group of builders making comments about your boobs but then you reject their advances and suddenly you’re a fat slag or whatever. Such male fragility! I’d laugh but it’s really not a joke (see my post about my friend getting punched in the face in Paris as she ignored advances)

For all you with bad Paris experience I raise you Cairo. Went with a female friend in my twenties. Big mistake. It’s an absolute misogynistic hell hole. We ended up unable to leave our hotel room couldn’t even use the hotel pool as the waiters came out and stared. Just a few days there before we joined an organised tour never again.

“I wonder what the age difference is between those who experienced it constantly from age 12 and those who never have? only I am in my 40s and I think it was SO much worse in the 80s/ 90s than today. Men have learned to act more civilised, also builders can get in serious trouble for cat calling on site..”

Sadly I don’t think this is the case. I’m 20 and it’s still bloody awful out there.

I think it’s just as bad maybe younger girls don’t get so openly harassed now I hope so

It’s awful in France and Italy. In my experience worse in India (but not so aggressive I snatched a camera out of a man hand as he was taking pictures of my boobs I did have a bikini and sarong on I was walking on the hotel beach) and was horrendous in Cuba I was laughed at for getting irritated in a shop when I was surrounded by a few men

Least harassment has been in South East Asia

I remember being in a club I was about 25 and a guy (I’m guessing in his 40’s) coming up at me and staring at my boobs i moved away and he followed I asked him what he was doing and he replied something along the lines I’m loving this view all his friends were laughing it was so humiliating

What I don’t get is why older men think a young women would be interested in their advances. My younger work colleague will often get attention with older guys that come into work they think they are bing charming when they are not they are being sleazy. Older female colleagues are very protective over her, i remember this when I was young older women being protective it’s comforting to know many women will look out for each other

Older female colleagues are very protective over her, i remember this when I was young older women being protective it’s comforting to know many women will look out for each other

I agree, I e seen and experienced this but I think we need to do more.

The Paris example I gave earlier in the thread of being sexually assaulted on the RER (basically an old tin can of a train that connects the Metro to the Paris suburbs) I was desperately looking at women for their help and no one helped they even avoided eye contact and looked down at their laps. I had got up and stood by the doors to make it appear I was getting off the train and I hung back and he got off. I was so relieved I burst into tears (I was 20 at the time) and the women around me looked so embarrassed they just turned away from me. If I ever saw a girl visibly distressed I couldn’t ignore her, even just to ask if she’s ok

My lovely friend, who suffers bad with anxiety, ventured into town for a walk around for the first time since lockdown a few weeks ago. She swiftly came home in tears and vowing not to go out again. Some builders had shouted "look at that fat, ugly old cow."
She is an attractive 50 year old.
So after years of leering, whistling, arse slapping, boob grabbing, lewd comments etc we have this shit to look forward to for getting older.

Regularly from age 12 to early 30’s. Ranging from catcalling to a taxi driver offering us a ride in exchange for sex (at 14), to catcalling, curb crawling to coercive sex in a previous long term relationship. So gross and I hope that it won’t happen to my daughter but I don’t feel confident that much has changed.

Less so since then but I work in a very female dominated profession. I’m very average looking.

My lovely friend, who suffers bad with anxiety, ventured into town for a walk around for the first time since lockdown a few weeks ago. She swiftly came home in tears and vowing not to go out again. Some builders had shouted "look at that fat, ugly old cow."
She is an attractive 50 year old.
So after years of leering, whistling, arse slapping, boob grabbing, lewd comments etc we have this shit to look forward to for getting older.

I’m sorry your friend had to go through that
Although sadly similar comments can happen to young “unattractive” women too

I used to get CBT sessions for bad social anxiety, and the practitioner would tell me to remember most people aren’t judging me ... which felt pointless considering I have had SO many instances where men have judged my appearance and then found it necessary to say hurtful things

This thread has certainly got me thinking. I was 10 in the mid 70’s and shows like Benny Hill certainly made all these previous examples quite acceptable at that time. Things that I experienced, I and all society would brush off. Looking back it’s horrendous and I think I could list pages and pages of previous experiences. Mostly in my teens and twenties. Being a no nonsense 50 something now I will always step in if needed but will be keeping a closer eye on things from now on.

Yep. Had a couple of very uncomfortable experiences as a student where a male 'friend' attempted to be extremely coercive.

Was groped and stalked on holiday in Turkey in my 20's.

Had unwelcome and sexually explicit calls and messages, also in my early 20s, from someone old enough to be my Dad.

A friend of mine had to threaten to sue her Uni after a male member of staff sexually harassed her for over a year.

I honestly think it happens to most women more often than not.

And what do men do about it? In my workplace they tell us we should all be using gender neutral toilets. W*%kers!!