Sexual harassment is an almost universal experience for women

[severeine]

I was having a conversation with a well-meaning male friend who was struggling to believe this. I think it is a case of not realising because he hasn't asked/spoken to enough women and isn't a perpetrator himself. For most women I think it is for to say this starts well before even the teen years and persists for 3 or more decades. I have experienced it myself, from school to work, in random situations and still do now. You don't need to be attractive, I am I suppose what you'd call average, you just need to be a woman, ideally unaccompanied. I was talking to one female friend who was harassed every single day by strangers when she lived in Paris, which is one place I've heard of it happening a lot, only it is everywhere. I wonder what your experiences have been?

@noseresearch I agree. When I've challenged them, I've been told I'm ugly or a lesbian or one of the other go to put downs.

Absolutely. I am incredulous at those upthread who say they haven’t experienced it. And even before we experience, women are raised from the off to be more careful just because we are women.
We are raised to be afraid of the streets at night because to walk them alone would be asking for trouble.
We are raised to police our own dress lest we titillate men who wouldn’t rape women if it wasn’t for our bare legs or high heels or god forbid both.
We are raised to expect sexual assault in even its mildest form at some point.
And all because not enough of us are raising enough of our young men to stamp this out.
Will it ever go away completely? Dunno. Until not behaving in this way benefits men as much as it does women, it’s still going to happen.
(Middle aged and tired of this shit, can you tell?!)

Some of the stories posted are awful. However, I've been lucky in that I have avoided most of the crap in my life and work settings.

But...I was raped as a teenager in Ireland

Yep from the teens onwards, loads of unwanted comments and then having my bum grabbed in nightclubs/bars. Also having to deal with really inappropriate 'banter' from older guys at work. Generally being made to feel uncomfortable and on a couple of occasions unsafe.

I hated having to go to the butchers and having the men there make lewd comments and laugh when I blushed, I was about 12.

Yes, I've had a lot of these experiences too and it started when I was young, at primary school boys pulling up my skirt or trying to climb up to see into the girls toilets from the outside. My first ever date with a boy was when I was 12, we went swimming at a local pool with mixed changing rooms and I caught him spying on me getting changed afterwards.

I caught a middle aged man staring down my top when I sat down to try on a pair of shoes in the shop he worked in when I was 13, creepiest thing about that is I have always looked quite a bit younger than I am partly due to being very small.

When I was 18 and used to catch the late bus home from work a man used to catch the same bus and would always come and sit close to me and pester me to go out with him despite me telling him I had a boyfriend (I didn't), I eventually stopped getting the bus home and opted to spend most nights staying with colleagues and not going home at all. Whilst I had this job (door-to-door sales) I had some scary experiences with creepy men, one invited me into his flat to sign paperwork and the entire flat was covered from top to bottom with porn magazines and he just stared at me silently while I did the paperwork quicker than I've ever done anything in my life to get out of there. Another man invited me in and then physically blocked me from leaving for 3 hours while he told me all about how crazy he was and showed me his knife collection before deciding to let me go, neevr been so terrified in my life and I refused to work alone after this episode.

In my twenties I had a second pt job in our village shop and an alcoholic guy in his 60's wouldn't leave me alone, kept asking me out and trying to touch me, wouldn't take no for an answer and the owner of the shop liked him spending so much money on booze in his shop that he refused to do anything about it.

I've had plenty of lewd comments/unwanted attention on nights out, been groped, chased by men and I've been followed by strange men late at night.

I'm not good-looking, I'm short and completely unremarkable, I guess there must just be a lot of horrible creepy men in this area.

Yep. From about the age of 11. It was a major factor in my opting for an all female hall of residence and probably a female dominated profession too. Affected everything from how I dress to where I feel safe socialising. It improved a bit when I learned to drive and didn't have to use public transport as much. Definitely meant I had to develop a super sharp tongue and the ability to predict the likely behaviour of those around me early on. Those of you who've not experienced it must either live in incredibly naice locations, have burly protective male relatives, or never go out....!!

I think I've had it pretty easy compared to many, despite developing young and having big boobs from 13 onwards. I was reasonably pretty as a teen and 20s, but nothing special at all. I'm probably slightly better than average in 30s and now 40, but I can't tell tbh.

A summary of my experiences:

Nickname at school was 'mammaries'. It was friendly and never threatening, but I remembered it reading this thread.

Boob and smile comments from strangers on the street from late teens onwards.

Requests for my number from people at busstops etc, some really hassled and I ended up relenting and giving a fake number. I generally had the courage to say 'I'm not going to go out with you so there is no point giving you my number', which generally was laughed off as they'd try again to persuade me, but sometimes they got angry.

An ex pinned me down, kissed and groped me in a park in the dark. I knew he didn't mean to go further somehow, but I was shocked how quickly this sweet weedy guy overpowered me and how angry he was in those seconds. All because I had got another boyfriend.

Men pressing up against me on the bus, train.

Sexual comments from a guy I worked with, my junior in fact.

Lots of bum gropes in nightclubs.

Creepy looks and drinks bought for 14 Yr old me by my parent's creepy friend.

This has been maybe 100-200 small incidents in my life. I genuinely think it's at the lower end of what most women receive. I went to boarding school 11-16 so was away from older men, then 16
7-18 I generally had a boyfriend out with me, or was so engrossed in my own conversations that I didn't notice them.
Then 19 onwards I was at uni in London and quite loud and rowdy and confident with my friends, so we laughed at men's silly attempts to put us down. 25 onwards mainly out with lairy friends or now DH.

I think I avoided a lot of the worst of it due to my situation, I'm sure a lot happened that I didn't notice. I remember feeling shocked, confused, and unsettled whenever something did come on my radar.

I hadn't ever written it all down before, interesting.

I think one experience sums it up for me. My dad had been away travelling for several months and invited me to join him for a few weeks in Australia after I'd finished my A Levels. One evening I went out for a walk around the streets, on my way back I saw 2 boy-racer cars parked up on the pavement ahead of me with a group of around 8 young guys standing around the cars chatting and laughing. I had to go past them, I didn't know the area well and didn't want to get lost down some dark side street. I felt the usual heart thumping and pulse racing, wondering what was going to happen, looking around to see if there were other people around, where could I run to etc. As I drew closer they saw me and started to speak to me, ultra-polite little 18yr old me stopped and spoke to them. They were perfectly friendly and polite, asking where I was from and how was I enjoying Australia etc. Then it came. They told me they were on their way to a party and would I like to come along. I politely declined and explained my dad would be wondering where I was soon. To my astonishment they nicely said "ok no worries, it was nice to meet you, enjoy the rest of your holiday" and I went on my merry way. No pestering, trying to convince me to change my mind, no nastiness or insults, they just took no for an answer straight away.

The fact that this was so shocking for me says it all really.

Oh and to add almost all of my female friends have had one or more serious incidents to add to the minor ones, rape, serious harassment from a boss, forced blow job, taxi driver assault etc etc. And none of them would consider they had anything that serious, because they've only had one or two. I migjt even ask them and see if they even remember. I'm known for remembering people's stories that they don't remember themselves.

here is some more light reading on a vintage thread started by the much-missed Dittany

Someone may already have shared this, in which case apologies - but this video, made in 2014, might help your friend understand what women face daily - www.buzzfeednews.com/article/marietelling/this-powerful-video-shows-men-what-it-feels-like-to-be-subje

I would say it happened almost daily from when I started secondary school. I’m sure it’s a huge factor now as to why in such an anxious mess in social situations (what are they saying about me? What are they thinking about me?). Although I think it stopped when I was about 25. Rarely happens now in my 30s, but I still get anxiety anywhere there are people

Sophiafour, that video is stark.
Makes you really wonder why we have to put up with it.

It's not sexual harassment but the other thing for me, that I noticed in the video, is how often women are spoken to patronisingly vs men. You know - the man offering to park your car for you, the tone of voice of a man in authority to a woman vs a man. Often incredibly different to pin down but we all just deeply instinctively get it. We don't hear our partners, fathers, sons etc spoken to in that tone of voice that we ALL recognise.

It's not sexual harassment but the other thing for me, that I noticed in the video, is how often women are spoken to patronisingly vs men

YES!

DH has been working from home since Xmas, and I said to him just yesterday 'I know straight away whether you've answered the phone to a man or a woman by your tone of voice'.

Yes I struggle to believe that women haven't experienced this is some form or another. I guess it happens that routinely that a lot of the time it's not even deemed as out of the ordinary. Which is utterly appalling really.

Personally, I have had my vagina groped in clubs, 'motor-boated' by a random guy on a night out with my friends who then ran off, snogged against my will, and then the usual, lewd comments, stared at, cat called etc etc.

Being a woman is a blessing and a massive curse.

I can only really remember twice it has happened to me.

The first time was just some older lads in Italy asking how old we were. We were 14 on a school trip at the beach, teachers told them to leave us alone. So not sure if they were being pervy or what. Once in a nightclub at about 20 a guy just wouldn’t leave me alone until my 6’7 built like a brick shit house friend pushed him and told him to fuck off.

I’ve been avoided because I’ve been very overweight most of my life, and a goth for a good chunk of it. I’ve had more abuse hurled at me than I can handle though, all of it from men.

My first experience was as a 10 or 11 year old in P7 swimming lessons. A man flashed my group - none of us had started our periods and still looked very young. It didn't even occur to us to say anything to the teacher. This was late 70s. It just went downhill from there.

Yes, on a night out, had a male married colleague stick his hand up my skirt and tried to get down my knickers, out of nowhere. He was over twice the size of me so I had no chance of stopping him but I somehow managed to push away and stayed away for the rest of the night. I'm not even that attractive and I gave absolutely zero signs I was interested. We weren't even alone. I believe it happens absolutely.

DH has been working from home since Xmas, and I said to him just yesterday 'I know straight away whether you've answered the phone to a man or a woman by your tone of voice'.

Working in a shared office space once, I heard a man talking on phone/skype to "Joe". But the tone of voice.... Sure enough, when I walked past his computer to go to the bathroom, I could see the screen - it was Jo, a woman, he was speaking to.

Yes. I spent an extra half an hour repeating myself because men doubt me. And it's not subjective. It's rules of a scheme/legislation kind of stuff. But men doubt me all the time. I repeat politely, no, what I told you is correct. Etc etc

YANBU
I was talking about this with dd and my DH really had no comprehension or recognition of what we were saying, and he is far from neanderthal.

@Ticklemelmo

Yes, on a night out, had a male married colleague stick his hand up my skirt and tried to get down my knickers, out of nowhere. He was over twice the size of me so I had no chance of stopping him but I somehow managed to push away and stayed away for the rest of the night. I'm not even that attractive and I gave absolutely zero signs I was interested. We weren't even alone. I believe it happens absolutely.

Not being "that attractive" can make men even more annoyed that you are not grateful for their attention. Im average. I know that that can make men angry when you turn them down. If you were beautiful they'd shrug i guess