AIBU or is DH over this petty argument?

[StupidArgument]

For background, DH has a brother in law, Brian, who is quite pedantic, he likes things his way, he doesn't like windows or doors open or unlocked, even in the recent hot weather.

DH and I today have had a nice day, went for a long dog walk and made a nice dinner, watched a film etc but towards the end of the day we were both feeling a bit bored.

DH asked if we could go to bed early tonight, it was 8:30, I said fine shall we finish watching this program and go up at 9? He said "I have to be up really early" so I said should we just go up now then, but I was slightly irritated because we ended up having a conversation about it with him being a bit funny with his answers to me and me having to guess what he was hinting at instead of just saying "can we go to bed now as I have to be up really early".

Then, I was locking up and he had a moan at me about where I put my keys for the night and that I shouldn't put them there, I should put them there instead, and how I didn't lock the bolt properly. I didn't really say anything to him about it in reply.

He went upstairs before me, and as I was walking up he called to me "I wish you'd be a bit more security conscious" and I said "what do you mean?" and he said "you've left all the windows open up here". Five windows are open, 3 are just on the latches so can't be opened more, one was fully opened by him and one by me. I told him this and he started saying "don't come crying to me when someone robs you" and I just snapped and said "sorry, Brian"

He called me a sarcastic bitch and then he called me "Doreen" - my Mum's name. He said it was disgusting that I'd called him Brian and that I'd really hurt him. I said "Look, I'm sorry I called you that--" and he cut me off and said "you need to apologise to me". We got into a stupid, petty argument then with him saying "you need to apologise to me" and me saying "I just did" over and over, and writing all this down it just sounds absolutely ridiculous. He told me I can fuck off and that he doesn't accept my apology and went to get in the shower. I changed the bed sheets and when he came back I apologised again but he still told me to fuck off and that he doesn't accept my apology as I really hurt him. I left him for half an hour watching TV in bed while I came in another room and then tried apologising again but he said the same.

I do feel bad now for saying that as I only said it because I was annoyed and my temper flared, but I felt like I had kept my cool about the stuff before and having a go about open windows, when it is still warm and stuffy here, it just pushed me over the edge and I snapped at him.

AIBU or is he? Or are we both just BU and childish? He's gone to sleep now, what should I do in the morning?

I think that's why I'm hoping if I say I don't want anything from the business and he prefers the old house anyway, it might be okay

If you are willing to move into the old house, but still feel like you want to give him the option to move there, do not express a house preference. Move to your mums. Then when you tell him that you are leaving, simply tell him and say 'we have two houses, which would you prefer?'. Don't give him any indication of your preference, as that's the one he'll choose, and he'll use it as another tactic to get you to go back to him.

Just wanted to say good luck, Op. Just read the whole thread and such great advice on here. You can do this and I’m excited to read about your first night when you’re all settled in your new/old place and can take a deep breath and relax.

Personally I feel that you would be better getting your investments from both properties back and buying a new house that's just yours and has no memories of him in it. You will probably find that you will love that one more just because of that.

Your plan is a bad plan.

Your plan is based on appeasing an abusive man so that he will play nice when you tell him he has lost control of you. This will not work. This will make it worse. It shows you are still controlled by his mood. It shows you are still afraid of him. He will smell the weakness and desperation.

Think of it a different way. Try a thought experiment. Let's assume he is going to go to do anything possible to make it hard for you to leave. A bad fairy has waved a magic want to ensure that he will be an utter bastard whenever he can and there is nothing you can do about it. What plan would you come up with now?

Wand not want obviously

Well as long as theres someone there. Also prepare yourself for a fight - hes not just going to give in so you need to be careful not to suggest what you want up front as he will say no to spite you. This isnt going to be easy.

Firstly are you a Director? If so you are liable (although limited liability means that you are not, usually, but it can still get you in trouble) & have a say in how the business is run day to day. Things like whether he pays himself using dividends or salary, what risks & debt the business takes on etc. All directors have an equal say. If not it doesnt really matter too much.

Secondly do you have more than 25% of the shares? And are the shares all the same share class? Do you have 50% of the shares?

If you are a director he needs more than 50% to remove you as a director & he can make various changes to the business.

HOWEVER if he has 75% or more he can change the structure & class of the shares (so yours could be a B class & not tied to his pay which is probably taken in dividends as its more tax efficient). He can also wind the company up. Your 20% of the shares are worth nothing because you have no power. Though you can sue him for 'prejudicing minority shareholders' if he tries to pull a fast one.

So I would suggest a clean split where part of the settlement is the shares you own being transferred back to him. He will argue for a low valuation, but what you are really selling him if you have more than 25% of the shares is the ability to do what he wants with the company financially. You can stop him making virtually any major move with 25% or more of the shares. So that is NOT free.

You might want to take stock of your position before discussing settlements with him. If you have more than 25% of his company you can make his life very difficult in future. Because he cant pay himself dividends & not you. No matter how many shares you have he cant do that BUT he could just wind the company up & start a new one if you are under 25%.

@EggyPegg

I think that's why I'm hoping if I say I don't want anything from the business and he prefers the old house anyway, it might be okay

If you are willing to move into the old house, but still feel like you want to give him the option to move there, do not express a house preference. Move to your mums. Then when you tell him that you are leaving, simply tell him and say 'we have two houses, which would you prefer?'. Don't give him any indication of your preference, as that's the one he'll choose, and he'll use it as another tactic to get you to go back to him.

Yep. Absolutely.

DO NOT EXPECT HIM TO CO OPERATE. He wont. He would rather crawl over broken glass than give you what you ask for. So tell him you want the dogs. Because if you start a negotiation having already given it all away then he will take whats left. The dogs can be something you 'concede'. Go after your shares (which are yours) & any other part of his company the solicitor tells you that you can. Go after his pension.

THEN you can 'concede' & he can have the dogs, settle you out of the business, & split the rest.

Oh and please have someone there. You might 'feel strongly' that you know him & what he will do. But you are wrong. YOU feel those things, YOU want those things. He wants control & money & if he cant have control over you he will fuck you over. Please dont trust your own instincts here becaudse your instincts are to placate him & talk it through. And that will be a disaster.

I think that's why I'm hoping if I say I don't want anything from the business and he prefers the old house anyway, it might be okay

If you are willing to move into the old house, but still feel like you want to give him the option to move there, do not express a house preference. Move to your mums. Then when you tell him that you are leaving, simply tell him and say 'we have two houses, which would you prefer?'. Don't give him any indication of your preference, as that's the one he'll choose, and he'll use it as another tactic to get you to go back to him.

*DO NOT EXPECT HIM TO CO OPERATE. He wont. He would rather crawl over broken glass than give you what you ask for. So tell him you want the dogs. Because if you start a negotiation having already given it all away then he will take whats left. The dogs can be something you 'concede'. Go after your shares (which are yours) & any other part of his company the solicitor tells you that you can. Go after his pension.

THEN you can 'concede' & he can have the dogs, settle you out of the business, & split the rest.

Oh and please have someone there. You might 'feel strongly' that you know him & what he will do. But you are wrong. YOU feel those things, YOU want those things. He wants control & money & if he cant have control over you he will fuck you over. Please dont trust your own instincts here becaudse your instincts are to placate him & talk it through. And that will be a disaster*

Really good advice.

@EggyPegg

Personally I feel that you would be better getting your investments from both properties back and buying a new house that's just yours and has no memories of him in it. You will probably find that you will love that one more just because of that.

I do kind of wish I could do that, but I don't feel like we've made any memories in the new house anyway really. Plus I'm not sure how much extra involvement I would need to have with him? And the additional costs and stress. I'd rather just be able to stay put and just focus on my course.

I do think that was a really good idea though, to go to my Mum's and then let him pick which house he wants.

@Vodkacranberryplease Please dont trust your own instincts here becaudse your instincts are to placate him & talk it through.

A very good point; I'd not thought of it like that. My instincts are what got me here in the first place!

And the additional costs and stress. I'd rather just be able to stay put and just focus on my course.

I completely understand this. Besides, when you're done with your course, you might decide to sell up and bigger off to Dubai as mentioned above anyway!

@EggyPegg

And the additional costs and stress. I'd rather just be able to stay put and just focus on my course.

I completely understand this. Besides, when you're done with your course, you might decide to sell up and bigger off to Dubai as mentioned above anyway!

Exactly!

I dont mean you have bad instincts OP. What I mean is that what we think are our instincts are actually not - what they are is our desire to avoid conflict, or to be loved, or to look after others. These are emotions. And these are the things that keep us making very bad decisions. Because we feel better when we think we are making it easier.

Confrontation is hard, standing firm is hard, especially when we are not used to it. Sometimes we literally can not trust our own judgement. I often get another opinion if Im not sure - and if it makes sense I will follow that advice to the letter even though i FEEL like I dont want to & I feel like its not right. Because I know thats just my emotions getting in the way. Deep inside my instincts will tell me its the right thing to do even if its the hard thing.

And when you are splitting up with someone who is going to be greatly inconvenienced, is already controlling, & who is used to getting what he wants then these are not what you lead with. Thats partly why solicitors exist. Because they will say the things you dont want to (via letters). Because they dont love him or want to please him & they dont care if he stamps his feet & starts shouting.

Thats why I suggested a letter. Because he will make SUCH a fuss & its going to be hard to deal with that & he will try to back you into a corner & into making a decision you will regret (like postponing the course) because by then you will do anything to escape the discomfort.

Right now you are heading towards having a discussion about this. And discussion means he has a say in the outcome. It means he could argue for x or y & you have to consider it & justify why you arent doing it. You are then asking him to allow you to leave - as opposed to telling him you have left.

I think that a discussion will end badly. So much could go wrong. You could, if you want, have a face to face discussion in a few weeks/months time when hes over the shock. I dont think face to face is doing either of you any favours.

Oh I also think...go to house B. Make sure only you have keys. If you go to your Mums he literally has control over both houses. You can stay overnight at Mums but leave your non important stuff there.

He will be so enraged you will be in a position to swap before he realises whats even happening.

You're doing the right thing and you will feel so different. I'm a couple of years older and live by myself. You have all this to look forward to!
Eat what I want, do what I want, go where I like, decide what to do myself, all my own money. And I have a lovely new man who turns up with cake but my home is in my name and always will be
You have SO much ahead of you, even if that's sitting in your pjs eating cereal for tea and binge watching Netflix

I don't think the plan is ideal.

You say you want to do this in person, but from the backstory, any time you have ever made a stand with this person it has blown up in your face and you've been forced to back down. Is there any scenario in which you could conceive staying with him? Are you really sold on this new life? Or are you a bit scared of the unknown?

If you tell him face to face it's the ultimate stand. He'll either throw everything at you to try to get you to stay, or...

If you move into the old house, you won't really have split up. Or at least he will see it that way. He'll come and go as he pleases as he will feel comfortable doing so there. He will continue, or at least try, to exert control over you. This man has never respected your boundaries before, why do you think he'll start now?

I was in a relationship from 17 to 27. It was extremely abusive and I eventually left. I had reached the point where I cringed when he touched me. There is no way back from that.

Do not be guilted into living this half life. You have so much to look forward to. Yes, it's scary, but it's also exciting. I still have dreams about my ex, wake up and see my kids and my partner, and think TFFT.

I had my first at 39 and my second at 42. I'm not saying everyone gets lucky, but it doesn't automatically follow that it's all doom and gloom. I had fertility issues in my younger years too.

You don't owe this person anything. I'm another one who thinks the making it to him comment is really creepy. And if someone woke me up at 5 just once (ok, apart from the kids) I would lose my mind. What you say about menial work, being forced to work for him, cut off from your family and friends - you need to go. When your ducks are aligned of course, but you definitely do need to go. This new life you're inventing sounds amazing. I know I wouldn't go back to living in misery with my ex for all the tea in China - I would have missed out on so many adventures.

BTW, what triggered the end of my relationship with the ex was him calling me a cunt in front of our family and friends on a night out, and me suddenly having a moment of clarity and thinking "what the hell am I doing?". I know your ex isn't that bad, but the reason why he did that was because I'd told him earlier that day I was thinking of taking a weekend job and he didn't like it.

If you move into the old house, you won't really have split up. Or at least he will see it that way. He'll come and go as he pleases as he will feel comfortable doing so there.

So much this. It's his house too. And he'll be quick to let you know it. I really, really think a new place to live is best. Whether that be student accommodation, a shared house, a rental flat. Somewhere that he doesn't have the address or any right to.

I've read the thread and am rooting for you Op.
An abusive man will be at his most dangerous at the time of leaving him.
His emotional abuse won't have worked for keeping you in check, he's hurt you before and how he has lost control of you. You need your Dsis and BIL in the kitchen while you tell him in the living room.
Please be careful and remember that the cops are there at the end of the phone if anything gets out of hand or you are afraid for your safety.

I’m rooting for you OP!

Similar to PP I had a bf for many years, 15-23, who was absolutely vile.

I look back at our time together now, fifteen+ years later, and think who would I been if I’d never met him.

DO NOT WASTE ANYMORE TIME WITH SOMEONE THAT ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU!

Fortunately my life is lovely now (and includes children, who I had slightly later on).

Everything you’ve said about your husband reminds me of my ex.

I wasn’t allowed to attend my university course.

He encouraged me to drop out and get a menial job.

He stopped me seeing friends and family.

He criticised me constantly.

Screamed at me and hit me in public.

Took money from me for drugs.

This is tip of the iceberg. But still I stayed, and stayed.

Until after one Friday night out he called me and casually told me he’d spent all night drinking and chatting with this great girl.

This while I wasn’t allowed out of the house without him! Apart from going to work. At 23!

Something snapped in me and I told him firmly, in no uncertain terms it was over and I wouldn’t be changing my mind.

He swung from repentant to apoplectic for weeks. Always giving me one last chance 🙄

Do yourself a favour and get rid of him now and live your best life. My ex is still a going nowhere loser with a string of children and a drug problem.

My life on the other hand while not always a bed of roses is a damn sight better for having him nowhere near it!

Good luck to you! Give it six months and you’ll be a new person 💖

When I say move into house B I mean take all the keys and change the locks! Then you effectively control one house and he controls the other. With a bit of luck he will be so pissed off at being locked out he will want to force you out, into the house A. At least if you have one of the houses there's something

Otherwise he could just string you along forever as one had to be sold. Which means he will refuse viewings, put too high a price on it, sell it to mates for a pittance. Etc etc. So you will be stuck at your mums with only the money you could get out of a joint bank account. While he delays and delays and refuses to sell.

Anyway see what the solicitor says. You obviously can't have him entering the house. When you get in you might need to 'lose your keys' somewhere that would require s change of locks for security's sake. Good luck proving that one for him and he has a home so fuck all he can do.

If your solicitor goes after the business hard enough he will want to just get the settlement done as soon as he can.

The idea is that every time he hassles or delays he loses something else, you ask for something more. He needs to feel that settling quickly is better. You living at home with mum gives you zero leverage.

Either that or you follow your feelings and get screwed.

@ StupidArgument

Please listen to everyone who is telling you that having any kind of private chat with your H to tell him you're leaving is the exact opposite of what is good for you.

I know you think he will cope better with privacy, but........

1. You shouldn't be thinking of what's easier/ better for him, should you ?? Consider your safety first!

1. You need to be safe from him, and just because he hasn't hit you

(yet), doesn't mean he won't ! (You haven't left him before either have you ?). As an absolute minimum, you must have your SIS and BIL in the house, you need the safety net of witnesses who can jump in if things escalate.

1. It's already been said that you cannot trust your ''instincts''

concerning the best way to tell him. Your instincts of self preservation are what's made you capitulate and give in to every demand he's made of you !

Just a wee reminder.................

*You deserve to live the life you want, and not to be controlled (either by fear or guilt) by such a truly horrible man.

Can you do something for me ?

Every time you catch yourself thinking 'what will DH think/ feel/ say/ do ?'.....................please say to yourself, ''actually, what do I think/ feel/ want to say/ want to do ?

It'll take practice, putting yourself first ( after all, you've not done it for how many years ??) but it will happen more naturally with daily practice.

Or you could simplify it slightly by saying ''what would he think ? Who bloody cares ??''*

Remember, he has demanded your obedience in all things, where you live, your career/ job, who your friends are, if you're allowed out, what you buy, what you wear, where you go, who you talk to, when you can visit relatives and what you can tell them, even when you can go to bed FFS !.....................every single aspect of your life, HE controls !

STOP trying to give him control over how you leave him. That's what you're doing every time you consider his reactions / feelings etc.

You are doing fantastically, and we're all supporting you 100%.
You are a wonderful, brave and intelligent woman, who deserves to be happy.

Now go get some happiness..............