AIBU or is DH over this petty argument?

[StupidArgument]

For background, DH has a brother in law, Brian, who is quite pedantic, he likes things his way, he doesn't like windows or doors open or unlocked, even in the recent hot weather.

DH and I today have had a nice day, went for a long dog walk and made a nice dinner, watched a film etc but towards the end of the day we were both feeling a bit bored.

DH asked if we could go to bed early tonight, it was 8:30, I said fine shall we finish watching this program and go up at 9? He said "I have to be up really early" so I said should we just go up now then, but I was slightly irritated because we ended up having a conversation about it with him being a bit funny with his answers to me and me having to guess what he was hinting at instead of just saying "can we go to bed now as I have to be up really early".

Then, I was locking up and he had a moan at me about where I put my keys for the night and that I shouldn't put them there, I should put them there instead, and how I didn't lock the bolt properly. I didn't really say anything to him about it in reply.

He went upstairs before me, and as I was walking up he called to me "I wish you'd be a bit more security conscious" and I said "what do you mean?" and he said "you've left all the windows open up here". Five windows are open, 3 are just on the latches so can't be opened more, one was fully opened by him and one by me. I told him this and he started saying "don't come crying to me when someone robs you" and I just snapped and said "sorry, Brian"

He called me a sarcastic bitch and then he called me "Doreen" - my Mum's name. He said it was disgusting that I'd called him Brian and that I'd really hurt him. I said "Look, I'm sorry I called you that--" and he cut me off and said "you need to apologise to me". We got into a stupid, petty argument then with him saying "you need to apologise to me" and me saying "I just did" over and over, and writing all this down it just sounds absolutely ridiculous. He told me I can fuck off and that he doesn't accept my apology and went to get in the shower. I changed the bed sheets and when he came back I apologised again but he still told me to fuck off and that he doesn't accept my apology as I really hurt him. I left him for half an hour watching TV in bed while I came in another room and then tried apologising again but he said the same.

I do feel bad now for saying that as I only said it because I was annoyed and my temper flared, but I felt like I had kept my cool about the stuff before and having a go about open windows, when it is still warm and stuffy here, it just pushed me over the edge and I snapped at him.

AIBU or is he? Or are we both just BU and childish? He's gone to sleep now, what should I do in the morning?

I just wanted to stress as I know the thread has moved on since I said it last, but financially I am okay. I actually handle all the finances for the house and business, he is not controlling over money at all. He loves to work and wants the glory of being the best and successful, he doesn't do it for the money. So I'm okay on that side of things. Well, not that we have a lot but that I am in control of what we do have.

We are actually waiting for a payment to come in to us personally though, we have a joint debt that we need to pay off and is expected in the next couple of weeks, I need that before I can go as with the debt I wouldn't be able to manage financially if I left.

@Popc0rn "Whenever I raise any complaints, he always say he is just working to give us a nice life, and it shuts the conversation down completely. How can I argue with that?"

But it's not a "nice life" is it? How can it be a nice life when you're trapped in a job that makes you physically ill with stress, and he shuts you down and emotionally blackmails you when you reach out for support. You don't need to argue about it with him, argue about it with yourself: do you believe that you are living a "nice life" right now because of your husband?

I think that's what I've come to realise actually and one of things that is spurring me on now. It's his idea of a nice life, my idea of a nice life would involve him working a normal 9-5 job in his field instead of being self employed, but I would never ask that of him because he would hate it. It wouldn't be a nice life for him. It's the same for me, just reversed.

@Racinglikeapronow thank you. We have two dogs, I would like to keep them but I am willing to let him take them if it comes down to it (I wouldn't separate them), as sad as that would be for me. I don't want to share "custody" of them and he loves them to bits, I know he would look after them.

Have you started applying for student finance etc?

Do all this as a single/separated person. The university's have support services- use them!!!

Apply for student accommodation, it actually makes it an easy way for you to move out.

@mathanxiety Thank you for the videos, I can't watch them at the moment but I will make sure I do later.

I have been doing a little bit of reading about narcissists and a couple of quizzes? I know they're not accurate but everything seems to be coming out in the middle about him.

I understand what you're saying about how I should leave, but it just seems so cruel to do to someone I've been with for 15 years, who has no idea that anything is even wrong. Leaving him is the right thing to do, I know that, but I just... I don't know.

Yours and @whatisthisfuckery 's posts have both scared me.

Stay strong OP. Sounds like things are moving in the right direction for you

I would think best to leave first, then tell him. And be prepared for him to offer to change, he can't live without you etc

Here's another book recommendation www.amazon.co.uk/Why-Does-He-That-Controlling/dp/0425191656?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

You say that he isn't controlling over money but you are still toeing the line. He has used finances to try to control you in the past by threatening to separate finances if you don't continue to work with/for him.

My XH wasn't controlling about money in the least ... until we separated. He has left me with no savings after taking me to court for vast amounts of money in our divorce and continues to threaten to stop paying maintenance even though he has only paid it for a few months of the 3 yrs since we separated. My point is, you don't know how he will react and those of us who have been through it see similarities in your stbx with our xh.

it just seems so cruel to do to someone I've been with for 15 years, who has no idea that anything is even wrong

You have told him many times that you are not happy. He shuts you down, punishes you with silence and threatens to leave you. He does that to shut you up because he likes things as they are and he knows you don't.

Let's say you are not "cruel", one day after lunch you sit him down and tell him you are leaving him. You will be gone in a month. He will hear from your solicitor. What happens next that is so "kind" to him? Do you sleep in the same bed? Do you work for him still? Do you still go to bed on his command? What if he gets angry or sad? What happens at dinner time?

You know he will take it badly. Doing it from a distance isn't cruel. Making yourself available for him to react against in person is not kind to him nor you.

He is a terribly controlling man. Nobody will think you awful if you leave and tell him it is over remotely.

You are still trying to manage his emotions. Stop. You are breaking up. He will feel shit. So will you. That is normal.

He might feel better being able to tell everyone you left without warning because you are a cowbag. So what? Let him have that. Anyway, whenever a man says his wife did a midnight flit, no matter how much he slags her off, everyone else is instantly suspicious of him. Especially when the ex wife is a nice person like you.

I've only found this thread for the first time today and have read it start to finish.

My heart goes out to you OP. Congratulations on getting the place on your uni course, that is absolutely fantastic news.

Stay strong. It's natural to have wobbles.

it just seems so cruel to do to someone I've been with for 15 years, who has no idea that anything is even wrong

But it's never been right! You are not being cruel. You are realising that you are worth so much more than this and that there is more to life than this.

[quote StupidArgument]@mathanxiety Thank you for the videos, I can't watch them at the moment but I will make sure I do later.

I have been doing a little bit of reading about narcissists and a couple of quizzes? I know they're not accurate but everything seems to be coming out in the middle about him.

I understand what you're saying about how I should leave, but it just seems so cruel to do to someone I've been with for 15 years, who has no idea that anything is even wrong. Leaving him is the right thing to do, I know that, but I just... I don't know.

Yours and @whatisthisfuckery 's posts have both scared me.[/quote]
15 years? You've been with him since you were 18, if I've followed the chronology correctly. I'm not surprised it feels a hard thing to do.

He's had you under his control your entire adult life - it takes a huge amount of courge toi look at your life and see what's wrong. You are finally making choices for a future for YOU.

We're all pulling for you, OP. Follow WA's advice, get yourself safe and enjoy the freedom of a new path.

@StupidArgument i was where you are 4 years ago. Ultimately, how "bad" he is in terms of his abusive behaviour doesn't matter one bit. You are unhappy and he is the root of it.

I had been in the relationship since I was 18 and married for 15. I tied myself up in knots trying to work out whether he was abusive or not, as if this was the only reason I could leave. IT DOESNT MATTER. I was deeply unhappy and eventually gave myself permission to leave even though it wasn't "that bad". I recognise many of the behaviours you desceibe in my ex, and it still makes me uncomfortable to acknowledge that actually that behaviour WAS abusive.

What I'm trying to say is when you think of leaving him, think of how YOU feel not how HE behaves. He could be entirely blameless and you would still be entitled to leave- you being unhappy is the only reason needed, and you don't have to justify it to anyone.

It took me a good 7 years to make the leap, and a few failed attempts that he knew nothing of. Keep going, you deserve to have a fulfilled life of silliness and late bedtimes if you want, I am now once more the ridiculous, frivolous, unmaterialistic and relaxed person I was before my ex metaphorically stomped all the personality and oomph out of me. You're still in there I promise.

Good luck x

OP, My first husband was "not so bad" I'd been with him since 15, married at 18, I left him at 21 and divorced him asap, I was feeling very guilty when I told him I was leaving him, because he "wasn't so bad", but I just didn't love him ( and he was actually a lazy, freeloading cocklodger of a manchild who sponged off me and took all my money and spent it on gaming and drugs)

He beat me and raped me that night and seriously injured my body. He had already injured my mind with his abuse.

The sexual abuse, yes, lots of that during our relationship (but I didn't realise saying no his demands was ok, because this was pre 1992, and there was no such thing then as marital rape)
But he'd "never actually hit me" until I told him I was leaving. Shoves and pinches and slaps on the bum, and looming over me, but no actual hitting.

Until I said I was leaving, and he beat me to a pulp.

And everyone thought he was" such a great guy"

I really hope I'm wrong, but please, be aware, there is always the first time to hit you, and I think you've already described incidents where violence was implicit in his actions, if you hadn't backed down?

Take care how you act, now you are breaking free of his coercive control

And some 35 years later I did The Freedom Programme and have had years of counselling and all those I've told about what he was likewere appalled at how abusive he was during our relationship, but my boundaries were so skewed from an abusive childhood that I couldn't see it, at the time. Boiled frog!
Take care x

@Catmaiden that sounds so awful what you went through. I'm glad you're free of him, how are you about it all now?

It sounds like we have a few similarities in our situations and I have to admit when I read:
"But he'd "never actually hit me" until I told him I was leaving. Shoves and pinches and slaps on the bum, and looming over me, but no actual hitting."

I feel like that has really hit home. DH has never hit me, but he has hurt me a few times. He actually has a really annoying habit of smacking me on the bum, I don't like it, I tell him everyone time he does it that it hurt me, but yet he still does it. He can be a bit heavy handed in general and I don't think he does it to hurt me purposefully, but I hate it. He'll do it a few times until I have an angry reaction and then he'll stop for a bit, then start up again.

Those are direct threats of serious violence if you displease him.

You know this.

It is why you are scared of him. It is why you don't stand your ground.

You are too scared to choose your own bedtime and your own job because of what he will do. Listen to your spidey sense.

You would be stupid to be alone in a room with him for even ten seconds after he knows you plan to leave him.

I don't think he does it to hurt me purposefully

Well you told him that it hurts and he does not have your consent but he keeps doing it. Does he have dementia? No. Then of course he is doing it to hurt you on purpose. There is no other explanation. None.

You are the boiled frog. Or the ostrich with her head in the sand.

@TorkTorkBam You are the boiled frog. Or the ostrich with her head in the sand.

I know. Everytime I post something, I'm horrified by it. I can't believe how much stuff I've let slip by, and how much stuff I've forgotten. I know I had a wobble yesterday but since posting here I've been remembering things, and I've found a couple of old posts I made on here, some from years ago. I've read some old diaries that have jogged my memories too and I feel really ashamed of myself for letting me get to this point.

Do not feel ashamed!

Feel angry. Feel ready for action.

Feel Fuck you, you utter fucker

Get the rage. Think: Fuck this shit. I am leaving. I will do it in a way that causes you maximum.pain and exposes you for what you are you fucker. I will make sure you can't do a thing to me either. How do you like them apples! I will take all the furniture while you are at work and you'll come home to a note saying I have had enough of your shit I divorcing you and you will never see me again. Take that!

Do you have friends that you go out with?

@StupidArgument

Most online quizzes on personality disorders are compiled by people who are not practicing psychotherapists or academic psychologists. While some still have merit, others are just clickbait. They have their uses, but don't rely on them.

There is a danger in depending on them for an accurate sense of who and what your H is - that they are inaccurate for starters, but also, in your case, that unless your H checks all the boxes, then 'he couldn't be all that bad'. When you over-rely on check boxes and don't take into account your own physical nausea and depression that are caused by this relationship, it indicates that you have been trained to believe you do not matter and that deep down you believe you need permission or some overwhelming externally-generated evidence as a reason to decide to live your own life.

It seems to me that you have been trained and conditioned for decades to believe that your only importance lies in performance of your duty to other people. Don't rely on any diagnosis (or 'diagnosis') of your H to form your decision to leave.

Talking to him in advance about leaving is another way of seeking his permission, and it's an indication that somewhere along the line someone has stolen from you (or knocked out of you by various means) your sense that you have personhood that matters. You can only regain that proper sense of your own importance by leaving and forging your own path. You will not be allowed to get away if you try to share that endeavour with your H. Asking him is essentially giving him the power to say no. Don't give him that power over you.

Why should he allow it? Your H cannot regulate his sense of self worth or sense of self esteem from inside. He will react to your decency in telling him you are leaving (which is really asking his permission to leave) by defending his source of self worth and self esteem (i.e. you). He needs that supply like an addict needs his heroin. If you try to do what you consider the civil and decent thing by giving him notice, he will defend his supply in subtle ways - pretending to support your teacher training hopes while gradually undermining you with cruel remarks or time consuming errands, or as with the photography cheque, deliberately sabotaging you. Or he could react violently in a multitude of ways both overt and covert.

Leaving this man and establishing an immediate solid line between him and you is necessary for your own emotional and psychological survival. You have most likely fallen into the co-dependent trap that was set for you of believing that you can control his response, soothe his feelings, make him respect your decision, and part as friends.

This is not going to happen.
He cannot live his life without a mirror to reflect his own idea of himself back at him. He cannot even go to bed without you to reflect that act back at him.
He is never going to validate your insistence that you are a separate person. He cannot see you that way. You are to him a blank screen onto which he projects his life. You are not a real person, you have no needs of your own, you speak but your opinions and wants are irrelevant to him, and frustrating because they are a challenge to his sense of reality.

This is why you need to leave without telling him, and not turn back.

Do not feel ashamed! Oh please don't!
, I told you my past (even although it really hurts to post about it, even after 40 years, and a very happy second marriage of 35 years)
Only because I really want you to get out, safely.

Please, believe all of us who are saying stuff you think is "extreme" "overreacting" "not going to happen to me" might.

None of us ever thought our partners could do "that" ( rape, beat, hit, threaten to kill us, them, pets, children, family)

Until they did.

believe our collective experiences and learn from them.

Stay safe and say nothing to him until after you are safely out, with all your precious documents and possessions out, and you have got at least half the joint account into your personal account

@StupidArgument there isn't a nice way to leave someone. If you tell him to his face and put yourself at risk or leave with a letter for him to read it's the same for him. You've left.

So there is no need to put yourself at risk. You're leaving and how you do it ultimately makes zero difference- to him.

I've seen some truly horrendously situations on here after women have left. Catmsidens is far from the only example I've seen.

Everyone knows if a guy is violent you leave carefully- what they don't know is that even non violent ones can turn

Please don't be ashamed, you have done nothing wrong.

The slapping you on the bum hard enough that it hurts carrying it on after you've told him you don't like it - that's abuse and keeping you "in your place"

Your instincts have kept you safe.

You have repeatedly told him you didn't like him slapping you on the bum. He has repeatedly kept on doing it.

What does that tell you?

Oh and the reason you haven't seen any really bad behaviour is because you have done what he wants. So you have kept yourself safe. But that will change in a heartbeat,

And shame over something you can't change is a wasted emotion. All you can ever do is learn and move forward - which you are doing. In style I might add.

This time next year your life is going to be amazing and this will be a distant memory! But now is the time to take every precaution possible and assume the absolute worst of him.

If he turns out to be reasonable then great. He will never know how you thought. You don't have to be nasty about it after all. Just give him NO opportunity to do anything he will regret. Get the legals sorted, do everything in writing and from a distance. If he sees you have prepared and aren't vulnerable/he can't get near you believe it or not he will be a lot better. You can do that in a polite and respectful way.

So..., careful, prepared, from a distance, polite, respectful, firm and clear. Don't go back and forth or talk. Just do it and be done.

Oh and I think you should leave him the dogs. You won't want dogs when you are single, on the course and being a teacher, much as you love them. I have one and even though I take her to work etc it's still a lot of responsibility!

He never does anything remotely interesting so is a better owner to them. You will be busy having an exciting life.