AIBU or is DH over this petty argument?

[StupidArgument]

For background, DH has a brother in law, Brian, who is quite pedantic, he likes things his way, he doesn't like windows or doors open or unlocked, even in the recent hot weather.

DH and I today have had a nice day, went for a long dog walk and made a nice dinner, watched a film etc but towards the end of the day we were both feeling a bit bored.

DH asked if we could go to bed early tonight, it was 8:30, I said fine shall we finish watching this program and go up at 9? He said "I have to be up really early" so I said should we just go up now then, but I was slightly irritated because we ended up having a conversation about it with him being a bit funny with his answers to me and me having to guess what he was hinting at instead of just saying "can we go to bed now as I have to be up really early".

Then, I was locking up and he had a moan at me about where I put my keys for the night and that I shouldn't put them there, I should put them there instead, and how I didn't lock the bolt properly. I didn't really say anything to him about it in reply.

He went upstairs before me, and as I was walking up he called to me "I wish you'd be a bit more security conscious" and I said "what do you mean?" and he said "you've left all the windows open up here". Five windows are open, 3 are just on the latches so can't be opened more, one was fully opened by him and one by me. I told him this and he started saying "don't come crying to me when someone robs you" and I just snapped and said "sorry, Brian"

He called me a sarcastic bitch and then he called me "Doreen" - my Mum's name. He said it was disgusting that I'd called him Brian and that I'd really hurt him. I said "Look, I'm sorry I called you that--" and he cut me off and said "you need to apologise to me". We got into a stupid, petty argument then with him saying "you need to apologise to me" and me saying "I just did" over and over, and writing all this down it just sounds absolutely ridiculous. He told me I can fuck off and that he doesn't accept my apology and went to get in the shower. I changed the bed sheets and when he came back I apologised again but he still told me to fuck off and that he doesn't accept my apology as I really hurt him. I left him for half an hour watching TV in bed while I came in another room and then tried apologising again but he said the same.

I do feel bad now for saying that as I only said it because I was annoyed and my temper flared, but I felt like I had kept my cool about the stuff before and having a go about open windows, when it is still warm and stuffy here, it just pushed me over the edge and I snapped at him.

AIBU or is he? Or are we both just BU and childish? He's gone to sleep now, what should I do in the morning?

Dear OP, I can't believe how this man treats you. He is so controlling and will continue to control you for the rest of your life if you let him. If you were to have children later down the line, they would learn and perpetuate this behaviour. Please, please, know that you are worth more and deserve to be happy. He sounds vile

Yes, he has said he'd leave me. I don't know if he'd follow through with it, I've never tested it.

That was how I ended up working in the job in the first place. The business grew from nothing, and I would help sometimes with his receipts. I knew even back then though, I really tried to stay separate from his job as I knew I would end up doing everything.

Anyway, it got to a point where he needed someone part time, and he asked me if I wanted to do it. I said no but that I would help him look, but he didn't like any of the people that applied. He sat me down and said "look, I really want you to do it. I understand if you don't want to, but then we would have to have our finances completely separate and I just don't think relationships that do that work". That was about ten years ago.

The business built up more and more and he put pressure on me to leave my part time job, which I loved, but I did it.

He's said a couple of times since then that he would leave me if I left, he says he wouldn't want to be with someone who wasn't working towards the same goals, or he says he will separate our finances completely and that would be okay in theory, I'm not out for his money, but there is so much more implied by him saying that.

Whenever I raise any complaints, he always say he is just working to give us a nice life, and it shuts the conversation down completely. How can I argue with that? But I find the job so stressful, my mental health was the worst it has ever been just before lock down. I was having awful stress-nightmares every night, started to develop a stammer and would regularly be physically sick from anxiety.

I feel really awful saying all this, and like I'm so ungrateful. I know people would probably love a job like they perceive mine to be. I know people in real life who know us have said as much, but from the inside it is far more emotionally complex than just "doing DH's paperwork".

As he has pushed you in the past, I wouldn't put it past him to get physical with you. You need to be prepared to phone the police if he does become so. Keep your phone charged and on you at all times.

Also remember that he doesn't need to agree to you leaving. It is your decision and completely up to you whether you end your marriage and leave. He doesn't get a say in it. You do not need to justify why, saying 'I am not happy' is enough. You do not need to agree to discuss it or to 'try again'.

I suspect that his behaviour will escalate (and I may be projecting my own experiences here) when he realises that you are definitely leaving. He will try to cajole, make promises (that he won't keep). Once that doesn't work, he may get angry. He may try anything just to get you back in line and back under his control.

I think you need to be prepared with somewhere to go and all your valuables already out of the house before you tell him.

Having a solicitor poised to help may also be a good idea.

So he has you slaving away until you are ill so you are financially dependent on him 🤬

OP, I've just caught your thread today, and have read it all.

I think you're an amazingly 'together' woman ! And if you're not sure of anything, you're adept at finding out what you need to know. You are strong, capable, thoughtful, brave, organised, smart, intelligent, articulate, patient, caring, kind, adaptable, enthusiastic (about teaching) and dedicated.

You have wasted enough of your life with a man who not only recognises all these fantastic attributes you have, but also tries desperately to squeeze and squash them down so that you never even get close to realising your dreams/ potential, simply because he's a selfish, egotistical, weak bastard that he knows he's not good enough for.

You know what you've achieved deserves congratulations and it's incredibly sad that you have no-one in RL to share this with (yet !).

You deserve to live the life you want, and not to be controlled (either by fear or guilt) by such a truly horrible man.

Can you do something for me ?

Every time you catch yourself thinking 'what will DH think/ feel/ say/ do ?'.....................please say to yourself, ''actually, what do I think/ feel/ want to say/ want to do ?

It'll take practice, putting yourself first ( after all, you've not done it for how many years ??) but it will happen more naturally with daily practice.

Or you could simplify it slightly by saying ''what would he think ? Who bloody cares ??''

I wish you all the success in the world cos lady, you deserve it, and I'll be here to cheer you on until you feel strong enough to not need MN support (and I know I won't be the only one !

Can you apply for student accommodation?

As chickenyhead says he won't leave. But it's a good one to use. 'I know that me saying I cant do this job any more is us over, you've made that really clear, and I respect that' - but quickly follow it up with 'and I think that's the best thing' or else you may have him trying to 'nice' you into staying and climbing down. So you need a very slight ego injury. But nothing that he does. More 'this life isn't for me' stuff. Rather than oh my fucking god you are so dull . Which he is. I think you've got this anyway. I should think you are exceptionally well organised.

Just don't let guilt or confusion get you!!!!!

@StupidArgument Oh OP, I think you're marvellous you know. And that you're on the cusp of something really amazing. I haven't read everyone's responses but I have read all of your posts. I know you've had some fantastic advice. I would just echo what someone else has said - perhaps have a bolt hole in place for when you're ready to go. Somewhere that he knows nothing about.

FWIW, I think you're going to be an amazing teacher. You've got such strength of character just to have come this far. Best of luck with everything.

@updownroundandround

I couldn't have put that better. 🌹

@StupidArgument I have a business. It's not tiny and it's not big. And tbh I am sick to death of the stress and the hassle. It isn't fun unless you really sign up to it - and you didn't. I have staff but you still just go so many things that you are not suited for, or don't want to do.

I look at my friend in Dubai getting paid decent money and living in a gorgeous new apartment and I think yeah. That looks good.

You are not wrong for wanting to not do this job. Maybe someone else would like it, who knows? But you don't and it's making you ill. Nope, sorry, you know you can't keep doing this.

Copy the financials - you’ll need it
Get paperwork together passport bank statements certificates etc

OP Im sure I remember a thread about that work situation earlier in the year - it sounded awful and based on that alone the guy sounded awful. If that was you, and adding the bedtime/controlling stuff you wouldn't believe how much better your life could be without him weighing you down.

You've come so far, no matter what please dont give up on your teacher dreams.

I'm so proud of you, OP. You have a right future ahead! You're married to a nasty man. But you don't have to stay with him. You can leave and start a new life and a new course.

Keep talking. Keep working towards your goal. Grey rock your husband for now until you can leave.

You can do this!

Just to ask also, are you listed as employed by his business? A shareholder?

"Whenever I raise any complaints, he always say he is just working to give us a nice life, and it shuts the conversation down completely. How can I argue with that?"

But it's not a "nice life" is it? How can it be a nice life when you're trapped in a job that makes you physically ill with stress, and he shuts you down and emotionally blackmails you when you reach out for support. You don't need to argue about it with him, argue about it with yourself: do you believe that you are living a "nice life" right now because of your husband?

"He's said a couple of times since then that he would leave me if I left, he says he wouldn't want to be with someone who wasn't working towards the same goals, or he says he will separate our finances completely and that would be okay in theory, I'm not out for his money, but there is so much more implied by him saying that."

Why would your finances have to be completely separate? Plenty of couples who earn different amounts share their income. He's just saying that to control you. Also do you want to be with someone who disregards any of your own goals and solely focuses on his own? That's not how happy relationships work in my experience, you both need to have you own goals and interests, and encourage each other to pursue them.

"I feel really awful saying all this, and like I'm so ungrateful. I know people would probably love a job like they perceive mine to be. I know people in real life who know us have said as much, but from the inside it is far more emotionally complex than just "doing DH's paperwork"."

You are not ungrateful, he's forcing you to stay in a role where you are unhappy because it benefits him, not because it benefits you.

The threats are just that, threats.

He wanted you working for him because that is best control of every minute of your life and every penny of your income.

He thinks you are utterly desperate to have him as your husband. He thinks you will do anything to avoid splitting up. This has worked so far. This has made you very very easy to control. Stop giving any fucks about being single. Brian #2 can fuck off.

Can you avoid having to live with him after breaking up?

Ideally you would do a midnight flit to your new place then tell him it is over.

Telling him it is over then having to live with him for days or even weeks is asking for trouble.

Stop trying to control his anger. He is going to be seriously seriously angry with you. The man can't cope with you choosing your own bedtime or having your own job. You cannot phrase the break up in a way that will make him be cool with it. He will be livid. He will act out. Expect it.

You have spent years desperately avoiding any risk of him getting angry, to the point where you make weird self-harming decisions. Managing his potential anger is a habit. Decide to stop. Sneak away. Then tell him you've gone by phone and tell him you left the divorce papers on the table. Be nowhere near him when he rages. The rage is inevitable.

What TorkTork says.

Good luck op. You can do it. Enjoy your freedom

@TorkTorkBam

Can you avoid having to live with him after breaking up?

Ideally you would do a midnight flit to your new place then tell him it is over.

Telling him it is over then having to live with him for days or even weeks is asking for trouble.

Stop trying to control his anger. He is going to be seriously seriously angry with you. The man can't cope with you choosing your own bedtime or having your own job. You cannot phrase the break up in a way that will make him be cool with it. He will be livid. He will act out. Expect it.

You have spent years desperately avoiding any risk of him getting angry, to the point where you make weird self-harming decisions. Managing his potential anger is a habit. Decide to stop. Sneak away. Then tell him you've gone by phone and tell him you left the divorce papers on the table. Be nowhere near him when he rages. The rage is inevitable.

I agree with everything here!

maybe I should just tell him about the course and that I'm leaving his company and see what unfolds from there?

NO, NO, NO!!!
Leave, block him on all SM and on your phone, and present him with a fait accompli.

Make it brief -
Hi there. I've blocked you so don't bother responding. I have left. Our relationship is over. You can expect to hear further from my solicitor, X. Any attempts by you to contact me in person will be interpreted as harassment and dealt with accordingly.

You do not need his permission to walk away.
You did not cause his problem, his anger, his disorder.
You cannot control it.
You cannot cure it.
You need to walk away and leave it all in his lap, to respond to as he sees fit. You for your part need to be determined that it's over and that you will protect yourself. Any direct communication with him on the topic of leaving either before or after you leave is equal to inviting danger into your future.

You are going to have to accept that you must walk away without any chance to explain yourself or to hear any sort of explanation or apology from him. You will not get any 'closure'. You will have to live with this because the alternative is continued engagement with him, and continued misery.

You don't owe him an explanation, no matter how much you think this is the decent thing. He will exploit every attempt at decency and civility you offer.

Your most recent posts depict a man who cannot conceive of you as a separate human being. The idea of you as a separate being is one he cannot stand, and will fight against. Rejection, being ignored (or 'abandoned') by you will be experienced by him as an attack. It is incredibly important to him that you do not show any hint that you are a separate human being with needs, feelings, thoughts, or preferences. He does not respect any of your rights whatsoever because the thought of your rights reminds him that you are not an extension of his personality.
So when you leave, you must stay gone, and your leaving must be absolute.

'Understanding Narcissistic Rage and Anger' (sound quality not great; 11:48 minutes). Watch out for disproportionate responses to perceived slights. 'Narcissist's Victim: NO CONTACT Rules' (Sound issues again, sorry; 6:22 minutes) Go NO CONTACT. Take the nuclear option at his first infraction of your order to him not to contact you. Be ready to involve law enforcement and to allow police to deal with him. Do not keep his abuse secret. Do not attempt to involve yourself in his response to your decision. 'Narcissist's Reactions to Abandonment, Separation, and Divorce' Informative. 8:46 minutes.

PPs are right OP, although I fear you’re about to find out the hard way. I also found out the hard way, not that there was any choice for me.

Good luck OP. I think you’re going to need serious amounts of it.

The work thing is particularly awful - how are you paid? is it a fair market rate commensurate with your skills and experience? Are you a shareholder at all?

You need to make sure that this business THE TWO OF YOU have been working on for 10 years does not just default to him when you leave. Personally, I think you need to speak to a solicitor and right quick.

You are being horrifically abused in your relationship. I’m shocked reading all your posts. When you leave never look back and block all contact. He is horrendous. Good luck with leaving and good luck with your course. You Deserve so much better.

What is the situation with the dogs?

Hi OP. I have read the thread but as and when since it started so apologies if someone has asked this and I missed it. You say you work for him, does he pay your tax and NI contributions and if so do you know if has since the beginning? Do you have access to the accounts to check?