My boss essentially warned me for racial insensitivity - aibu?

[Sakalibre]

Firstly, my maternal grandparents were born in Morroco and my paternal grandparents were born in India.

I'm in my 2nd year of a grad scheme (financial services).

Last week, we were given a presentation which addressed systematic racism in relation to the BLM movement.

I am the only female in my team of 15 and the only person under 30 so have a unique perspective.

At the end of the presentation, I very sensitively and tactfully stated I personally do not like being viewed as a victim purely based on the colour of my skin. I tried to say this in a constructive way that some non-white people could take offence to some of the things that had been stated in the presentation. I emphasised this was just an opinion

Anyway, I had a 1 to 1 meeting with my line manager following this presentation and I was given what can only be described as a very stern telling off. I tried to explain my position but he was having none of it. In the end, I actually apologised to him. Which I regret now.

Over the weekend I've given it all a lot of thought. Why should my feelings be discounted? Why shut down the conversation?

WIBU? Should I go over this again with my boss tomorrow?

@PinkyU
OP said her skin is brown, so no she clearly cannot pass as White. RTFT!

FWIW (I am a white woman btw) I get what you mean about not wanting to be seen as a victim.

Not from a being in your shoes of being BaMe background but from living with my ds who is disabled.

He says the issue is if people keep seeing disabled people as victims then any attempt to be inclusive and improve accessibility is seen as a "pat them on the head and let them join in way" rather than a "well why shouldn't he be able to join in just because he's in a wheelchair way"

I really think it's a perspective people should open their ears and listen too.

Minority groups don't want to be pitied victims. They want to be (and should be) equal and valued members of society.

@cinammonbuns

FFS!
You clearly need to remember what YOU have written in your posts! SMH!

"OP are you white presenting?"

I suppose I am racially ambiguous but most people assume I am Meditteranean/Middle Eastern.

I would never be mistaken as Anglo-Saxon.

It would have been clearer to say that you are brown-skinned than to describe where your grandparents were born, as you could have been white with grandparents born there.

I would be inclined to follow up in writing (email fine) and ask for clarification of the specific concerns raised by your line manager.

Was there any discussion after the presentation? Were others expressing an opinion?

This thread is mental.

OP - had to sit through a presentation at work which called all non whites victims multiple times. I’m non white and told my boss that I personally don’t feel like a victim.

Posters -

‘Ah bit you’re not really black - if you were black you’d feel like a victim’

‘What’s wrong with being a victim?’ Is it the word victim you don’t like?’

‘ oh your not being very clear even though you’ve explained it multiple times’

‘You can’t even spell where your grandparents are from - your obviously a troll’

OP if a white male tells you your a victim - didn’t you know your supposed to be one ...

@Lamahaha, I’ve lived in a place like this and it was heaven compare to Europe tbh.
We also had comments along the lines ‘oh yes he is so that’s normal he is doing ’.
No one ever took it as a sign that one party was racist or looking down. But as an a knowledg ment that different groups had different rules/cultures and therefore were reacting in different ways. It was just accepted.
The place had a lot of mixed marriages too which made things even more interesting (and I suspect accepting of each other too)

@Codexdivinchi

This thread is mental.

OP - had to sit through a presentation at work which called all non whites victims multiple times. I’m non white and told my boss that I personally don’t feel like a victim.

Posters -

‘Ah bit you’re not really black - if you were black you’d feel like a victim’

‘What’s wrong with being a victim?’ Is it the word victim you don’t like?’

‘ oh your not being very clear even though you’ve explained it multiple times’

‘You can’t even spell where your grandparents are from - your obviously a troll’

OP if a white male tells you your a victim - didn’t you know your supposed to be one ...

And also that the OP is personally supporting racism by not accepting her passive victim role

Minority groups don't want to be pitied victims. They want to be (and should be) equal and valued members of society.

Yep because otherwise it’s still racism under another disguise!

@ParcelFarce

How interesting that you cannot spell Morocco correctly, yet you claim that your maternal grandparents were born there.

Don’t even know where to start with this. Some of the replies on here are batshit!

I agree ParcelFarce: Its interesting how this poster has managed to infer the OP is making false claims, effectively bringing "birtherism" into a post, about a workplace issue.

As the most junior person there OP, the only female and person of colour, in the room and that says a lot more about the company's diversity policies than the presentation itself. it must have felt quite awkward.
I would quietly and perhaps verbally check if this meeting has been recorded as a verbal warning and if so see how its been worded and get advice on how to rebutt this if that is the best option for you.

Id also write down everything you can remember about who said what while its still fresh in your mind. I would also keep a work diary.
Maybe find someone in RL who can give you advice and not necessary from the company until you decide exactly how you want to handle this? After the way he has rebuked you, I'd want to make certain that this is a one off incident on his part which cannot be used to impact on your assessments and not part of a pattern.

You are on a two year grad scheme... how much longer do you have left? How long will you be in that department or will you soon move to a different one? Will you be given a chance for feedback at the end? (not asking for answers, just raising in case this has a bearing). Good luck

[quote JingsMahBucket]**@Sakalibre* look at the people who are agreeing with you on this thread. Most likely racists who are looking for any excuse to disregard the work they have to do. This* is what your boss was trying to convey to you. You’re doing the racists’ work for them by being “the model minority”.[/quote]
What a horrendous thing to say, and what nonsense. Does she not have a mind of her own/opinions of her own/her own agency? Do you not think it's racist to suggest that?

YABU for turning the word "victim" into a pejorative and demanding everyone else joins you in such behaviour. There is nothing wrong with using the objective descriptor "victim"; it is not an insult, it is not a pejorative, and it should carry no shame.

Perpetuating the idea that being a victim of something is weak or shameful causes real people real harm and suffering, so I'm glad you were told to stop on that count.

@Sakalibre
Your opening post was NOT vague. I understood why you explained the ethnicity of your Grandparents. For the people in the back - OP's Grandparents birthed her parents, which explicitly identifies OP's ethnicity 🙄
OP never said that she was more cleaver than anyone else or interesting.

OP has said more than once that the shade of her skin is brown!

OP is also young and female in addition to being non White. Yes, this is also relevant!

It's easy to see who is clearly batshit and/or rascist on this post just by their responses!

OP - Continue to speak up if you so wish. Document it all and take it to HR. I wouldn't bother speaking to the same Tutor? again alone, as he blatantly gaslighted you and effectively told you to keep your mouth shut! I would most definitely talk to him again with HR and/or other witnesses present and take back your apology. So pissed off reading some of the responses on here. I would literally need to make notes in order to come back at the more ignorant posters with even more detail. You all have major work to do if society is ever going to be free of racism 😑

OP, who was giving the presentation?

My feeling is that your boss was 100% in the wrong to try to tell you what you should feel about racism, let alone to accuse you of being racist. I would suggest that it is something that needs to be properly discussed, but I would suggest that you will need support so that it is not just you arguing with 29 other rather ill-informed white people. Therefore I wondered if it might make sense to suggest to HR that they arrange another discussion, but that this time it should involve a better mix of people and that it should be led by someone with direct experience and expertise.

Real racism doesn't give a fuck how not white you are

@FinallyRelief

But it wasn't about you. Because you're not black.

I'm fed up of brown people thinking they have the same experience as black people. You don't.

The presentation was about black lives and now back lives matter. Not your under 30 female brown life.

Keep that to yourself - why even bring yourself into it - that one itself is diminishing and racist - and that's why black lives matter is a movement for black people. It's the same as if an Irish person gave their opinion - cos they're Irish. Or an Arab - they're not black.

So are you saying that there are different levels of racism? That racists are smart enough to distinguish between different ethnicities? that being called paki hurts less and is not as offensive as being called wog? I do understand that the impetus for BLM was because of racism and violence specifically directed at black people, and specifically in the USA. I think the UK has a much broader ethnic base than the US and I would hope that anti racism movements in the UK would reflect this because in my experience racists don't really care what colour your skin is unless it is clearly not white. And then of course if you are Polish or Lithuanian it gets far too much for them.........

OP I think this thread has been extremely interesting to read. I think I understood what happened to you both during the training and afterwards, I also understood your reference to your grandparents , and your age and your gender. But it is the very strange remarks that have crawled out from the internet in some replies that have really amazed me. Thankyou for making Sunday afternoon a bit more thought provoking than it usually is on mumsnet

I hope the people on this thread feeding and promoting the idea that there is shame or personal failing or weakness in being a victim of something realise they're feeding the victim-blaming culture that means rape victims are shamed, and blamed and silenced. That means victims of abuse receive ire and condemnation instead of the person who victimised them.

Eschewing the word "victim" and piling condemnation on people for being victims doesn't protect you from being victimised or suffering harm as a result! The only way to protect yourself is to focus on the people creating victims.

Instead of getting irate about the supposed passivity or weakness of victims, and trying to paint it as if people choose to be victimised or harmed, how about you focus your attention and condemnation on the people who victimised them in the first place? They're the ones responsible for the harm victims suffer so why aren't you focused on them? Because you're giving them a free pass right now with all this toxic bullshit about people supposedly choosing to be victimised, and blaming them for their suffering. Ugh.

Fucking shameful.

Welcome to the new corporate bandwagon, your experience exhibits exactly the corporate wokescreen behaviour.

unherd.com/2020/08/do-you-know-what-a-wokescreen-is/

viques everything the Op has said has been easy to understand for those of us that can read, take inference from and think correctly.

White person tells a group of people, one of whom is a person of colour they acknowledge and want to address systemic racism.

Person of colour suggests the way of doing so didn't reflect their lived experience

White person bollocks person of colour for wrong

Ugh! I get you OP, it would be like being the only woman in a group presentation about sexism in the workplace from a man, saying you didn't feel it was the best way of addressing said sexism and didn't reflect your experience and the man telling you to shush and not rock the boat. Thereby displaying the sexism he claimed to object to.

I'm ill today so not explaining myself too well but I get you!

@user14562156358

YABU for turning the word "victim" into a pejorative and demanding everyone else joins you in such behaviour. There is nothing wrong with using the objective descriptor "victim"; it is not an insult, it is not a pejorative, and it should carry no shame.

Perpetuating the idea that being a victim of something is weak or shameful causes real people real harm and suffering, so I'm glad you were told to stop on that count.

I thought Sandiecheeks comment about how the word victim can be skewed was very interesting. I don't know if you spotted it up thread.

*clever
It looks like real racism gives a fuck about your grammar or possible typos!
Damn. Shaking my head (SMH) - For those of you at the back.

Typo! Was meant to say:

White person bollocks person of colour for wrongthink

IME big companies often run courses like this as a box ticking exercise. They have no real interest in changing things.

An example is my DD who works at the head office of a big bank in London. She was asked to organise and chair a seminar about support for good mental health in the work place. She saw her manager privately and explained that she didn't think she was the right person for this leading role as she has a history of depression and anorexia and it might be triggering for her. He told her it was inappropriate and needy to bring her personal issues into the office and she should just get on with it.

The presentation started off as an info pack put together by 2 white male grads, 1 white female and 1 Indian male grad. It was well received by leadership and it is now being circulated and disseminated throughout the company.

This is going to sound very judgmental but I question whether some of the people involved just used this an opportunity to be "seen" as most of them have form for being overly competitive and sycophantic.