AIBU to give money to the ladies who literally lie flat on their faces in the street?

[pa1oma]

I was wondering if I could ask people’s opinions on something please? ... In recent weeks / months when I’m out and about shopping, I’m seeing noticeably more of the (mainly Iranian, I think) ladies who lie on their face in the street, wailing and begging for money. For instance, in Kensington there was another one today and several down Champs Elysees as well as Hammersmith last week and it’s very distressing, but DH says not to give them anything because neither them or their children will see any of it. He says they are being put out their by a gang leader who uses these women and sends them out to beg because they are more likely to get money than a man who is begging. What do people think and do you give money to these women? I’m never sure what to do.

Seriously if someone is wailing in the street and you think they've been trafficked, why would you not help? I work with homeless people Im not naive. You've mentioned babies! Take them a cup of tea and speak to them and see what they need. Or email the local homeless charity or something at least?

Begging, especially by Roma, is a common sight in central London. It is very sad, but the only way to put a stop to this is to not hand over money. This makes it pointless for their handlers. Otherwise as PP have said, you are just funding modern slavery. Set up a standing order to a homeless charity instead.

I do know one local beggar who is not in a gang but he is deep into alcoholism to the point his feet are rotting away. Social services found him a flat but he prefers to beg on the street and as soon as he has enough cash he is straight into the off licence to buy alcohol. Nice guy, slowly killing himself on the donations of kind hearted passers by.

Sadly, giving money on the street is not the answer. I do give bottled water in hot weather, but that is it. I do make a regular payment to a homeless charity.

To the crime gangs these people are as disposable as paper cups.

and that's why you get families/friends groups working and traveling as a unit come hell or high water, because while things are on the up, it's a great business deal, but if anything goes wrong , the organizers know no one will ask questions if something happens to them or they vanish. Being part of a tight knit potentially volatile group who notice the minute someone isn't where they should be, acts as some guarantee to individual safety.

This is a common sight in Romania/Bulgaria/Albania/Montenegro on the summer, especially women laying in the street with tiny babies/toddlers. It’s all organised. They are gypsies FME. I was shocked and really upset the first time I saw it. The children are born into it and know no different .

Not all surprised they’re doing it over here as well but you’d expect the police to be moving them on and checking into the welfare of the DCin this country .

Absolutely do not give them money. As a PP said it just perpetuates it.

The professional beggers dress like Muslim women in London because, frankly, they know their target audience. Charitable donation is an essential part of Islam and many people won’t care if there’s a risk they are lying - women will often get £1-2k in an hour if they are near a mosque / Islamic centre and time their shift well. During Eid I have seen beggers being given £100 a time!

It’s true that charitable donations are an essential part of Islam, but mainly only to fellow muslims, that’s why these professional beggars dress have to dress as Muslim women, otherwise they’d get nothing.

I've been homeless twice and I didn't beg. If you give money to beggars often it's not spent on things that enhance their lives and health. The answer to the problem of homelessness is to get them off the streets, not to enable them to live in a way that shortens their life span.

Other types of beggar (including fake homeless, who actually have a flat etc) do it because it can actually give pretty good money.

@Yoloyohol that makes sense.

Sadly for the women these same gangs traffic into sex slavery, using the money they make from the begging, the same can’t be said.

I did wonder why the street teams tended to be mostly Roma but the sex slaves from outside that cultural group. It makes more sense now.

I don’t doubt it’s still a hard and unsafe life for the beggars but what the trafficked women go through is almost impossible to fathom and seems to be largely ignored.

I don’t understand why the police don’t put a stop to it and why DSS ignore the exploitation of the children. It just seems such a sign of a dysfunctional society when people are allowed to beg on the street (either because they’re trafficked or addicted). If it was not tolerated then people would not be used to prey on people’s good intentions.

Give to recognized charities.

They are Romanian gangs I was mugged by some that surrounded me like leeches in Paris they are horrendous- don’t give them anything

There used to be a man in the city I lived in. We used to chat every day when I walked down there. And yes he was an addict, but he still kept in touch with his mum. A really sweet guy, never once heard him be rude or abusive, told everyone to have a lovely day and was delighted if someone took time to have a natter.

He overnighted in the multi storey nearby. The staff on security there turned a blind eye because he was a good sort, he’d just get some drink and settle for the night.

Then all these other people arrived, professional beggars. They line the whole bloody street. Non of the old faces are left.

I never saw him again. I often wonder what happened to him. The last time I saw him he had a black eye. He was not a fighter. I did look for him, asked around the local charities but they didn’t know.

The women sit on the street and the men are never far away. You can feel their eyes boring in to you as you ignore the women. I feel for the women and kids and their shitty existence but I miss the old crew. They each had their little spot and stayed there all day.

Some of the women target the elderly, and that I cannot stand. One poor old soul was threatened by two women, and made to withdraw money from a cash machine.

Bloody arseholes.

We saw something similar on oxford street once, an old lady sitting in her battered old shoes begging, 5 minutes later saw her round the corner changing into her nicer shoes and heading off with her takings from the day. Scam.

It's crazy how many of these stories there are. Amazing that people are always catching them "around the corner 5 minutes later" changing into designer clothing or hopping into a sports car.

@SoulofanAggron pre covid I used to give quite regularly to a couple of people at my local train station. They were both very open that they sometimes spent it on drugs and alcohol but just as often they spent it on food and clothes for their dog. I saw it as none of my business really.

I’m interested in what you say about the fake homeless with flats. I once went on a date with someone who worked in local authority who claimed ‘most’ homeless people had places to live and begged either to top up their benefits or because they enjoyed the chaos of the street life.

I found that really hard to believe and seemed a reason for him to excuse being fairly dismissive and horrible about the homeless in general.

Or email the local homeless charity or something at least?

They’re not homeless as such. I think some people aren’t understanding the difference between your “normal” alcoholic/druggy/ex-army type and these professional organised begging gangs from Europe.

There was a report some years ago that people get on trains head to Blackpool to beg, apparently they earned £100+ a day, after I read that I never give anybody begging money as you don’t know who’s true.

Is this the man with the crutch?
www.express.co.uk/news/uk/769624/Cambridge-beggars-drive-car-satnav-par-walk-city-centre-passersby

They go all over and are scammers. Please don't give them money. Buy food if you feel you must do something.

I dnt as in glasgow there is a group that go out everyday including an eldery man with a stick that wails constantly and people feel sorry for him as it seems uncontrollable , however ive got on the same bus as him after work and he gets on and sits down quietly , so the wailing is obviously put on 🤷‍♀️

They’re actors. I’ve seen this going back twenty years. They contort their limbs and use walking sticks out at weird angles to make it look like they’re disabled. They wail all day everyday, go round all the local areas crying “Pllllleeeaaaaasssssseeee”.
Don’t give them anything, they’ll be on benefits and in a council house already. They know what they’re doing.

@daisypond I think they are being distracted by the sound their pearls are making as they clutch them in horror at us uncaring beasts.

Tea, sympathy and an earnest face is exactly what people under the cosh of a violent criminal gang need when they are supposed to be making as much money as possible.

We were in Paris and after a while realised the Romanian beggars were targeting the English tourists, the first day we were approached so many times, they had small slips of paper to show us with writing asking for money, I can’t remember exactly what it said. After a while whenever we noticed them near we’d speak German to each other and they’d turn away and go for someone else.

@Namechange2020onceagain

The photos in that article a great example of how they all walk!
Strange that they’re all disabled like that, in so many cities across the country, going back at least two decades.

@Bumbrella

No chance.

I’ve seen too many begging scams to believe any of them and besides, wailing belongs in the Sistine Chapel.

Agree with @supersimkin2

If genuine victims of Modern Slavery / Trafficking its awful to think what happens if they go home with out money, but the more lucrative the business the bigger the business grows. Think of it like puppy farms. It's tempting to try and rescue the defenseless little pup, but it's only when no one buys that the practice dies out and no more pups suffer.

As for begging I might give food or water if someone seems in desperate need but otherwise I'm not going to prolong criminality of help increase someone's addiction. I'd rather donate to a
Streetreach charity who can give real help to those on the street and who have been around long enough to know who is in what situation.

I never give money to beggars. I give directly to formal charities instead.

Your DH is right about it being a scam.

You'd be doing more good by reporting anything useful about it (eg any locations) to police who are trying to infiltrate these traffickers.

Also giving them something like a bottle of water if you want to help.

Breaks my heart.

Although me and my friends were scammed in a city once by some children begging. We were handing them some money because they were starving etc when they were called from the high rise opposite to get their stars home as dinner was ready

I don't know if the parents knew what they were doing or not?

No I don’t give. It’s part organised crime
The individuals you see need probably safeguarding not given money