AIBU to give money to the ladies who literally lie flat on their faces in the street?

[pa1oma]

I was wondering if I could ask people’s opinions on something please? ... In recent weeks / months when I’m out and about shopping, I’m seeing noticeably more of the (mainly Iranian, I think) ladies who lie on their face in the street, wailing and begging for money. For instance, in Kensington there was another one today and several down Champs Elysees as well as Hammersmith last week and it’s very distressing, but DH says not to give them anything because neither them or their children will see any of it. He says they are being put out their by a gang leader who uses these women and sends them out to beg because they are more likely to get money than a man who is begging. What do people think and do you give money to these women? I’m never sure what to do.

Don’t give them anything, they’ll be on benefits and in a council house already. They know what they’re doing.

Arguments like that don’t help and muddy the waters. They are unlikely to be on benefits or have a council house. You don’t understand the type of begging that this is.
I feel sorry in particular for the teenage girls.

No don’t. I used to work opposite an area where they begged. They would be dropped off in a people carrier in the morning and collected later on.
Some had fake babies (bundles of blankets) to help beg. It is a massive organised crime ring where they are essentially slaves, their job is to beg and hand the money over. You are encouraging it and not helping.

Its true they are put there. 2 ladies that beg outside 2 local banks in my town and I have seen them handing money over to men who certainly don't look poor. It's horrific

Namechange2020 no and he's using a genuine child's crutch. Our lot have cut down adult ones.
Look closely and you'll see the up turned toes for begging mode. but flat when walking to pitch or relaxed. Our wobble headed group do the same, straightening up and flattening their feet when walking back because the lights have changed.
Crutch user and woman are ethnic Roma and probably a couple.
Other guy is a legitimate amputee and not Roma. He's the one I'd be concerned for as potentially trafficked/used street drinker (the alcohol's on his face) though his lost limb may make him valuable.

They do this loads in Rome. No one bats an eyelid.

Good grief. No, I wouldn't give them money, and I'd go out of my way to avoid them, to be completely honest.

He says they are being put out their by a gang leader who uses these women and sends them out to beg because they are more likely to get money than a man who is begging

Your DH is right. The gangs also use children and disabled.

Jeez, I'm glad I live in a small town up north. I've genuinely never seen anything like it. This is quite a deprived area though so I guess they know they're unlikely to have any luck here.

NO - I wouldn't mind betting they're richer than you are, just better practised at manipulation.

As others have said its always a scam. Usually romanian gangs and they even drug babies to keep them asleep as props all day. Vile and scary should never give them a penny. Encountered one as a teen and i stroked the babies face and it was like a block of ice despite it being the summer she tried to take me to a cashpoint. Didnt happen.

Yes the babies are given sedatives and/or calpol to subdue them

I usually give them a bit of food such as an apple most of the time they don't take/eat it and that's when I know it's a scam. If they wolf it down then I have gone to shops and bought them more food. But rarely give money.

If people are seeing babies they think are drugged they need to call the police then and there

The police already know it’s well known

Then if they're not doing anything about these babies it's a huge failure.
No child should be drugged when they don't need to be. Out and drugged in public with the police turning a blind eye?

@SentientAndCognisant

The police already know it’s well known

Sure, but they don't know about that particular baby who's on X road at 2.30pm and you are concerned about their welfare - so you need to call the police there and then.

I am already unwillingly giving to such people via my taxes which pay for their benefits, legal advice, housing and healthcare, so no.

@SandieCheeks no need for the sarcastic reply. At the time I saw these beggars I was a single mum on benefits, so yes, if I had done the same with my children they would have been taken into care.

Not entirely sure of the availability of benefits for them at the time - ie I don't know if they were claiming but would think that they wouldn't have passed up the chance to claim if they were entitled, it was certainly easier to claim then rather than now - as I said it was nearly twenty years ago, so was just pointing out that things hadn't changed and if its not it should be an offense to beg with children.

The police absolutely know and used to issue warnings not to give them money and to report it. My friend reported at the time and was told they were aware of her and thats all they said.

The city street where I used to work in the 80s had a gang of Eastern European beggars for a week or so. One woman was carrying a filthy baby who was always asleep. They were picked up by a man in a Mercedes in the early evening. My colleague saw the baby being swapped to another woman who did the afternoon shift. We called the police and never saw the gang again. Sadly it has been going on for decades.

I do feel for those trafficked into this scam. But if WE know it is a scam
the police obviously know this also and I would ask what are they doing to stop it and protect these women.

On most streets and in particular busy high density areas there are PCSO and police patrols they know already
The beggars are located on a patch for a considerable time,and are visible to police and other agencies
Sometimes there are joint operations with LA and police to address the ASB involving the adults & children

@Yoloyohol

I'm afraid DH is right. There's another group with exaggerated signs of disabilities, previously with notably short crutches, working various traffic light junctions on the North Circular. We've seen the same sharp dressed guy in a white Mercedes picking up takings from both groups. (reported to the modern slavery hotline, as though it's probably all quite complicated, on at least one occasion the person handing over the cash was being harassed and searched.)

BTW if anyone recognizes the A406 lot, one of the 'wobbling head - splayed walk' guys, definitely has a steady head and just a very minor limp when out shopping.

I walk along the 406 north circular almost every day and have always wondered about the people on there - recently I have seen a man on crutches a lot, wonder if it's the same guy you mention. Before I saw him I used to see women a lot. I see a fair few cars give him money when I walk past too...

@RyanBergarasTeeth

As others have said its always a scam. Usually romanian gangs and they even drug babies to keep them asleep as props all day. Vile and scary should never give them a penny. Encountered one as a teen and i stroked the babies face and it was like a block of ice despite it being the summer she tried to take me to a cashpoint. Didnt happen.

That's awful, I hate to say it but I would have worried that the baby wasn't even alive. Horrific but sounds like they wouldn't bat an eyelid if this happened 😟