AIBU to give money to the ladies who literally lie flat on their faces in the street?

[pa1oma]

I was wondering if I could ask people’s opinions on something please? ... In recent weeks / months when I’m out and about shopping, I’m seeing noticeably more of the (mainly Iranian, I think) ladies who lie on their face in the street, wailing and begging for money. For instance, in Kensington there was another one today and several down Champs Elysees as well as Hammersmith last week and it’s very distressing, but DH says not to give them anything because neither them or their children will see any of it. He says they are being put out their by a gang leader who uses these women and sends them out to beg because they are more likely to get money than a man who is begging. What do people think and do you give money to these women? I’m never sure what to do.

The other thing that’s emerging more now as well, is people begging at major road junctions, such as on the A4 under the flyover - they hang out there and the pollution must be so bad for these men. You stop at a red light and they’re asking for money as the lights are turning!

No, I'm wary around these women because of them being involved with gangs. I give them a wide berth. If I do give them anything it's usually water of food, especially in this terrible heat.

I've had the tissue thing once on a train. They went through the carriage putting out the small pocket packets of tissues and then came back to collect money. I didn't give him anything so he took the tissues back.

I've seen the beggars crouching over with their faces on the ground and holding a cup in their hand. I guess it looks more pathetic and maybe gets them more money.

I agree with the others it's best to give to homeless charities.

I live in a medium-sized European city. These women are operated by gang leaders.
I happened to be in McDonalds` near the main station a couple of times at 7 am waiting for a train. On both occasions a large group of "beggars" appeared, bought themselves a breakfast and then sat down. A few minutes later a bloke turned up with a clipboard and went around each one to give them a paper cup to collect money in and told each of them where they would be begging for the day.
After breakfast they all made their way out to their allocated pitch....

According to one of the McD's staff, they are there every single day and have been for about 3 or 4 years now.

dont know if it stil happens they used to waok up and down tube trains all day usually with a sign begging this was years ago but even then it was a scam

@Soundbyte

Some of you seem quite knowledgable about this subject.. what happens when the women return to these men with no/not enough money?

Not 30 seconds thought ought to give you a fairly good idea of what vulnerable trafficked women will be subject to if they displease their gangmasters and don't pay off their "debts" to them.

@SockYarn

I've seen beggars all over the world, have never seen anyone lying on their face and wailing. Why? Super weird. Must work though.

It’s distressing to see for the first time. The first time I saw it I was shocked, but now it’s so common it has no effect. Before lockdown, I would see it every day on my route to work. But now it’s happening on my local high street too.

Didn't the Govt/councils take all the homeless off the streets because of Covid? The homeless have taken over at least 2 hotels near to me and have food provided.

I've never seen the situation you describe (the horizontal wailing women) but would have to harden my heart and walk by because, if they are being used, we need to make sure the gang leaders can't make money from it. Hard, I know, but how else do we stop the gangs from operating?

If they’re spending any amount of stone stagnant on the streetsr (by choice or not) they’re in some dire straits. I’m not going to be about to spend time trying to figure out if they’re ‘actually homeless’- I’m going to help out if I can.

Also worth noting with the current welfare climate having somewhere to live doesn’t mean someone doesn’t need to resort to begging to be able to get by. i’d say the time for morally assessing beggars was about 2 Tory governments ago

I have no difficulty believing beggars are controlled by gangs.

However, the people who always turn up on these threads banging on about the time they saw a beggar driving off in his solid gold stretch limo... Really? I mean, really? If begging is so cushy and lucrative, why don't you do it? I'll tell you why - because you only need half a brain to realise it's a fucking horrible existence. We've all seen beggars sitting there with crowds of people sweeping past without looking. Getting harangued by DM-readers who think they're all minted. Getting attacked and/or pissed on by lads out drinking, for a laugh. Right now, hardly anyone even has change! I don't care what you claim to have seen; none of these people are in a good place.

@Isfiftythreeok

There used to be begging back in the early 2000's in the same area - looking for the tourist trade - I mentioned to my mum that if I, with 3 young children, did the samewith my children and begged, social services would take my children away from me

Awful that these women and children aren't getting any help, isn't it?

This is very common in the part of London I live in and directly connected to organised crime gangs from Albania & Romania.

It’s turned the local high street into a cannonball run-you pass a wailing person who lies across the pavement making passing impossible for anyone disabled or with a buggy, to then have a cup shoved in your face by an old woman, then the crutches/wobbly head person falling into you and my favorite, the kindly old man who will hold his cap out saying ‘please help’ only to shout ‘fucking bitch’ once you pass.

I used to give change or offer to buy food & drink for people who seemed genuinely in need but these people disappeared almost into thin air.
From what I understand from people who were working with those on the street, genuinely homeless people were regularly beaten up & told to leave their spots by enforcers from the crime gangs because they were moving their ‘workers’ in. One man was beaten half to death.

I have no doubt that a lot of these types of beggars have no option but to go out to work like this but any money given is going into organised crime.

Every penny you give funds the kidnap of a human slave.

They were all over Leytonstone last year....big mercedes dropped them all off...a man handed out the crutches etc....now they plague the westfield shopping centre areas..romanian gypsies from Tanderei village....my romanian friends told me they specialise in begging and even the other gypsies hate them.!...they also adopt muslim clothing depending on the area they work in...they are very smart.

@GrumpyHoonMain

The professional beggers dress like Muslim women in London because, frankly, they know their target audience. Charitable donation is an essential part of Islam and many people won’t care if there’s a risk they are lying - women will often get £1-2k in an hour if they are near a mosque / Islamic centre and time their shift well. During Eid I have seen beggers being given £100 a time!

I live in Manchester where there's a huge Muslim community, and in my experience, Muslims ignore them as much as anyone else. There were loads of them on the Curry Mile, it got to the point where I'd recognise faces. They were usually women and I remember one doing the lying on the ground and wailing thing, though you do get the odd man as well.

I’m not going to be about to spend time trying to figure out if they’re ‘actually homeless’- I’m going to help out if I can.

Those begging and saying they are homeless are not the same as the Romanian gangs.

I think it's heartbreaking and sad as most of the women won't want to be living that life. They are likely to have been trafficked or just given the offer of a 'good job' in London. Either forced to do this (essentially like prostitution but without the sex) or sucked into gang life.
They need to be rescued somehow. I don't know how unfortunately.

@Starsabove1
Spot on. That’s exactly right. That’s my experience too.

@Starsabove1 I've heard of similar things happening with Big Issue sellers. The men force Big Issue sellers off their patches so that the woman can sell Big Issues there instead.

It’s a scam. They’re not homeless- they’re professional beggars, usually handing over the money to men.

If you want to donate please do so to Crisis, St Mungo’s, Centrepoint or Shelter.

@pa1oma Hi OP. Once my husband told the woman I can get you food to eat go choose what you want from a supermarket and instead she went to get jars of nescafe.. my husband just walked away.

I overheard a conversation at a bus stop between (I think) 2 social workers talking about begging with babies in arms. Apparently, there is some illegality to begging with a baby as it’s considered abuse and the baby could be taken into care.

I imagine Kensington is prime begging real estate. I can’t imagine a genuine beggar would last long without getting pushed out.

My hometown has banned begging from the town centre, which has caused huge outrage. Problem is they are almost all pros. The local lidl to me has a ‘spot’ and the male sitting there changes over the day. It needs to be cracked down on.

@Bumbrella

No chance.

I’ve seen too many begging scams to believe any of them and besides, wailing belongs in the Sistine Chapel.

🤣

I don't agree with permitting supporting or normalising begging in our city centres because it becomes a criminal industry and being taken over like that affects everyone's city environment. Channel services through legitimate charities and agreed levels of social services. Maybe you would rather not walk past someone who appears in distress. Others will exploit your discomfort and those women.