AIBU to give money to the ladies who literally lie flat on their faces in the street?

[pa1oma]

I was wondering if I could ask people’s opinions on something please? ... In recent weeks / months when I’m out and about shopping, I’m seeing noticeably more of the (mainly Iranian, I think) ladies who lie on their face in the street, wailing and begging for money. For instance, in Kensington there was another one today and several down Champs Elysees as well as Hammersmith last week and it’s very distressing, but DH says not to give them anything because neither them or their children will see any of it. He says they are being put out their by a gang leader who uses these women and sends them out to beg because they are more likely to get money than a man who is begging. What do people think and do you give money to these women? I’m never sure what to do.

Nope. Give to proper charities who ensure help reaches those who need it.

Most likely be giving money directly you're contributing to modern slavery...

A few years ago there were often women begging with babies, I’d say Romanian maybe?
I nipped home once lunchtime and walked the back streets to avoid the crowds, saw a woman pass the baby to another, 1st lady then got in a car with a man and woman and baby heading to the busy streets. Sharing a baby!!!

It’s rarely a good idea to give money to street beggars. Instead, donate to a reputable charity, though even these are getting more difficult to find.

@Soundbyte

Some of you seem quite knowledgable about this subject.. what happens when the women return to these men with no/not enough money?

this is what I worry about - but I don't think the answer is to give money as it encourages their exploitation. As a PP said - it is modern day slavery for sure. It seems to go in phases. Maybe a year or so ago, it was young women on the tube that would leave a note saying they were hungry and to give money and packet of tissues next to your seat and then would wait 5 mins and then come over and pick it up again with a hand out for money. I gave money the first time it happened as I hadn't seen the tactic before but then stopped when it happened the next dozen times. That has now stopped and I haven't seen this for a long time now - presumably TFL got wise to it

@Yoloyohol

I'm afraid DH is right. There's another group with exaggerated signs of disabilities, previously with notably short crutches, working various traffic light junctions on the North Circular. We've seen the same sharp dressed guy in a white Mercedes picking up takings from both groups. (reported to the modern slavery hotline, as though it's probably all quite complicated, on at least one occasion the person handing over the cash was being harassed and searched.)

BTW if anyone recognizes the A406 lot, one of the 'wobbling head - splayed walk' guys, definitely has a steady head and just a very minor limp when out shopping.

Does this man operate in muswell hill? For the past year or so. I've seen him on his phone chatting with very minor disability.

I find it very upsetting to see, and to think they are operated by gangs is scary. I will take the advice and report to modern slavery line as suggested in future.

There is a guy who sits by our local sainsburys on way to my train station, sometimes on the bus stop on my road begging. I've seen him get up ealk down the road much further and into a house......so he isnt homeless then

Never come across this but no, I would not give them any more as it merely encourages those responsible to make them do it more.

Don't give a penny, but if they are young and vulnerable looking offer to go into a nearby shop and buy them lunch/a drink. I buy dog food for a man locally most weeks, I've seen him give it to his dog straight away.

Definitely not, London police are not that busy at the moment.
If you can spot the person who is controlling them it’s worth calling the police. I managed to spot one last year (whilst making a very long, boring phone call) and she was apprehended.

There used to be begging back in the early 2000's in the same area - looking for the tourist trade - I mentioned to my mum that if I, with 3 young children, did the samewith my children and begged, social services would take my children away from me

No chance.

I’ve seen too many begging scams to believe any of them and besides, wailing belongs in the Sistine Chapel.

They will not be Iranian, most likely Romanian gypsies. They are part of criminal gangs and will be controlled by a gang leader but they are not trafficked; this is their 'job' as part of a gang.

If you have money to spare and want to help homeless, donate to a charity. You would be literally handing your hard earned cash to criminals if you give these horrible women money.

One stretch of high street has one literally every few minutes, with the prostrate elderly woman, or one with a cup and a sign, or the disabled person, or the woman and baby, or the accordion player, or the puppet man with extra loud music. A common one with younger women is to ask you to top up their Oyster card. They work in groups and can get quite aggressive when refused.

The professional beggers dress like Muslim women in London because, frankly, they know their target audience. Charitable donation is an essential part of Islam and many people won’t care if there’s a risk they are lying - women will often get £1-2k in an hour if they are near a mosque / Islamic centre and time their shift well. During Eid I have seen beggers being given £100 a time!

I haven’t seen any with children - that’s so terrible. The poor things. The one today was Iranian, but I do know what people are saying about the Romanian women on the tubes and yes, that does seem slightly less frequent recently. Has anyone else from London seen that slightly Rastafarian-looking man on the Kings Road who is often there with a very short crutch and no shoes and one of his legs seems to be malformed and he’s hobbling about up and down the road crying. He’s there a lot. I thought maybe he was from a local hostel, but now I wonder if he’s used by a gang then as well? It’s so distressing to see, it really is.

There are groups who set up in prime locations central London including outside University. Invariably it is the young, generous students who give them cash, food and/or cigarettes. They are trained to wail, speak the same phrases and hold up the same signs. However seem to have the latest Smart phones. I never give to them. Yesterday on tube, young well dressed girl walking through carriages, holding up sign to every passenger begging for money - no face covering.

Definitely offer food/drinks but cash is a risk due to gang funding.

As an aside, I’ve noticed a few comments on here mentioning Romanians. These people may be Romanian by nationality but are most likely to be Roma. There’s also a huge Roma population originating from Bulgaria and other European states. As someone who spends a lot of time in Romania, I can say that the general population and Roma don’t mix there generally. They’re almost two separate sections of society.

@minnieok I am with you and tend to buy vulnerable people food etc. Recently a young guy came up to me and said he had just been released from prison, had spent the money they gave him on release on drugs, that his parents wouldn’t let him in the house and please could I help him. I bought him food and booked and paid for a hostel for 2 nights.

@saltycat

How did you manage to get from Kensington and Hammersmith to the Champs Elysee to witness this scam?

Isolate and quarantine immediately.

This.

The professional beggers dress like Muslim women in London because, frankly, they know their target audience.

I thought headscarves were normal in lots of countries, like Romania, in the older generations. I have never thought these women were pretending to be Muslim. But I do often see Muslim people giving them money, that’s true.

The Roma women with babies. Do the kids stay under the radar from social services? I've seen a few women begging with babies on edgeware road. This is Child Criminal Exploitation in plain sight surely?

I’ve noticed more Romanian beggars around this last year. I very much doubt Iranian those who come here from Iran tend to be comfortably off and professionals. There was a number of Romanian beggars in the early 2000’s

Often can be quite forceful with their begging, I occasionally give money it’s a miserable life I can spare a few pounds what happens to the money if don’t know I doubt they live happy and fulfilling lives and feel for the children

I can say that the general population and Roma don’t mix there generally. They’re almost two separate sections of society.

Yes, that’s a fair comment. It’s difficult, because the Roma have a lot of prejudice against them, so maybe we try to mitigate that by referring to Romanians.

I've seen beggars all over the world, have never seen anyone lying on their face and wailing. Why? Super weird. Must work though.