The song ‘WAP’ does not deserve the fawning plaudits? (NSFW)

[Redolent]

m.youtube.com/watch?v=hsm4poTWjMs

WAP by Cardi B and Megan Thee Stallion. Stands for Wet Ass Pussy. That’s all what the whole song is about. Consensus seems to be that’s it a great anthem about female sexual empowerment. The New York Times: “An event record that transcends the event itself.” The Los Angeles Times: “A savage, nasty, sex-positive triumph.” For the high-brow publication Pitchfork, Cardi/Megan ‘center themselves as women in order to freely celebrate their coveted power, sex appeal, and A1 WAP.’

Sample lyrics:

“ I wanna gag, I wanna choke/I want you to touch that little dangly thing that swing in the back of my throat.”

“ “Gobble me, swallow me/Drip down inside of me/Quick jump out ’fore you let it get inside of me,”

Rest here: genius.com/Cardi-b-wap-lyrics

——

To me think the crassness of the song is so boring. I’m not outraged or aghast. I just don’t think it’s sexy in the slightest (others clearly disagree). The song talks about pussies so much they may as well be rapping about a pair of shoes. But I cannot seriously accept that this is video and song are anthem of liberating empowerment, with its pole dancing, strip club visuals and sexual cliches. Listen to the song all you want but let’s pretend these are role models.

@Leflic so if your issue is lack of representation, which is a very real issue, why is your answer to censor Cardi?

Why make the pool of empowered women smaller? Surely it's about getting all sorts of diverse women out there, loud and proud, being sexually liberated?

Because she's got a big arse she's too sexy to be empowered? Only true feminists can have hairy, wobbly bits?

Lack of representation is an issue. But yet, your issue's not with Mikey Cyrus or Taylor Swift? Blonde skinny hairless women can be empowered, and that doesn't offend you for lack of representation, but Cardi and Megan do? Come on. You're not going to redress the representational balance by silencing black women.

@Menora @easterflowerss yassss 💅😬
Cardi's IG made me laugh too. Gotta maintain that PH. Eating BBQ ribs the wholllleee day.

I haven't been able to get WAP out of my head since I first heard it. Have to be honest, I do cringe every now and again, but I catch myself, mainly because of the vile vile lyrics I belt out from various male rappers too.

For critics raving about these women bringing so much sex into music and doing something profound.......well l’il Kim would like a word. She was doing music like How Many Licks 20 years ago that is as graphic.

You Suck, by Consolidated featuring the Yeastie Girls (no joke) was released in 1992.

Oh, that ‘song’ brings back memories from ‘student night’ in the local clubs...

As someone said, it's a song about twats, by twats, for twats. There's nothing empowering about this.

@Menora

I actually really feel something when I listen to this bloody song. I feel like I get it. Over the past few years I finally feel like I own my own sexuality. I know what my vagina likes, it’s mine, belongs to me and I can do what i want with it. It has not always been that way. Cardi put an IG video on today telling women how to look after their vaginas and it made me laugh so much. If you haven’t seen it the gist is stop shagging men with stinky dicks 😂 and look after your vagina and love it!

I watched a documentary on the female orgasm on Netflix with my BF and even he was horrified that there are barely any studies into the female orgasm and it was only a few years ago they worked out what the clitoris actually was (that its larger on the inside)

If is an absolute joke that men can rap about their bloody dicks all day and night and one woman talking about how much she loves her vagina, appreciates it and owns it is made into horror. It is ridiculous. If you don’t like it don’t listen to it.

Spice girls said Girl Power, Cardi says Pussy Power 😂😂😂

But that’s the worry.

It’s not easy for women to be open about their sexually .its always defined by what men find “acceptable”.

Hence the women going topless. Men literally do it all summer long. And the difference is..... a completely non sexual one ( breastfeeding). Yet ours are seen as massively sexual. Because men define them.

@Iaintnosnackiamafeast

If is an absolute joke that men can rap about their bloody dicks all day and night and one woman talking about how much she loves her vagina, appreciates it and owns it is made into horror.

No no, it's just that Cardi B is doing it in the WRONG way. Cause I'm fairly sure if some white chick in a pastel skater dress made a twee song about vaginas, full of euphemisms, MN would be all over it.

Ha spot on. I don't remember the MN thread of shame when Katy Perry sang about being spread like a buffet 😂

@Alabamawhirly1 don't you think it's a little patronising to ignore the two women that wrote and sang the song, when they've shouted from the rooftop that those are THEIR WORDS and their thoughts, for you to suggest they're too stupid to realise they're being influenced by men and for men?

I'm not saying they didn't write it or that it wasn't their choice. I'm saying that if they were writing about somthing other than sex and wanted to do a video that didn't have them half naked and jiggling - they would be unlikely to get the backing that they do from the music industry. So I think that would be influencing their choices. These are business women, they are creating music that they know will get the backing of the record companies and will sell - and have everyone talking about it. They know how to sell themselves in a male dominated industry, and they know sex is the way to do it. So yes men have influenced what they did.

A pp poster went on to name a bunch of female artist that don't trade in sex, other than Lauren Hill, non of which are household names with the same fame and stardom as Nikki and Cardi B have. There is no ignoring the fact that if women want to make it big in the music industry, selling sex is the way to do it. That's not to say that women can't make it without selling sex - but the list of sucssesful female musicians selling sex and their bodies is a lot longer than the list of those that are famous while singing about somthing other than sex and keeping more covered up. And the list for women of colour is even shorter.

So although I'm all for women being able to express themselves however they feel fit, I don't think getting fame and fortune through selling yourself in the manner than males find acceptable is particularly empowering.

Why is everyone complaining that this song isn't sufficiently empowering for them?

Are women only allowed to take their clothes off and dance around if they can back it up with a solid reason for doing so?

Who gets to decide what reasons are acceptable?

To be clear, I don't think this song deserves the outrage it seems to have garnered, it's no worse than anything a male rap artist has ever done. I just don't see how it's empowering.
If people like it, great. If any woman hears this and feels she has more confidence with and more control over her body and her sexuality, amazing.
But it'll be a long time before lyrics about being violently choked with a penis, having sex in exchange for money or favours, or the word "whore" to describe women who enjoy sex will seem in anyway empowering to me.

Sex in music is not new though is it. It’s been here for a long long time. So why the horror over this?

Did we not already have a lot of white women doing shock horror faux lesbian type behaviour on stage (Madonna, I’m looking at you). That wasn’t even bloody real!

She is expressing in that song loving her vagina and being upfront about what she likes to do with it. It’s really explicit, and I did watch it whilst giggling, through my fingers at first. But then I was like... wait... I also like my pussy and it likes some of that stuff too. I kind of hope my children grow up thinking the Cardi way and not the porn hub way - that men dominate women, that only men know what women will like in bed, that women have to please men and it’s all about the male orgasm. Women should be having orgasms too, and bloody enjoying them

Who gets to decide what reasons are acceptable?

That's what I'd like to know too!
Before someone says "men decide what women want!" it seems that there are a lot of women out there too who have taken it upon themselves to say what is or isn't acceptable for a woman to do, want or be empowered by!

[quote easterflowerss]@Leflic so if your issue is lack of representation, which is a very real issue, why is your answer to censor Cardi?

Why make the pool of empowered women smaller? Surely it's about getting all sorts of diverse women out there, loud and proud, being sexually liberated?

Because she's got a big arse she's too sexy to be empowered? Only true feminists can have hairy, wobbly bits?

Lack of representation is an issue. But yet, your issue's not with Mikey Cyrus or Taylor Swift? Blonde skinny hairless women can be empowered, and that doesn't offend you for lack of representation, but Cardi and Megan do? Come on. You're not going to redress the representational balance by silencing black women. [/quote]
I don’t see black women any different to white women.The issue us the same

I do see black women as being as being massively disadvantaged by black stereotypes though As someone that absolutely loves Skunk Anansie primarily for the music but also for not being a stereotypical black musician
I despair if some overhyped rapped speaks for a generation.

@Leflic

Available. Happy to accommodate

I'm not even sure we're talking about the same song anymore. To me the song isn't saying they're available at all, in fact it's quite the opposite. And yes, because jumping on your man's face and grinding all over him has always been seen as the meek and accommodating thing to do, right?

You speak of representation. Remember when everybody was sick of seeing model thin women? And then we were sick of seeing slim women? And now we're also sick of seeing arguably curvaceous women too?

Do we all have to be apple shaped now?

Is there a particular shape they should all be or is it just their pubic hair you take issue with?

Hence the women going topless. Men literally do it all summer long. And the difference is..... a completely non sexual one ( breastfeeding). Yet ours are seen as massively sexual. Because men define them.

I have big boobs on a small frame. I SEE them as sexual myself, although I've also breastfed both children. Breasts are sexual. Nipples are really sensitive - sexual. When I take my top my off I pretty feel aroused. Also don't define myself as bi, never been with or had any desire for a woman, but I kinda enjoy looking at the female naked form and I know a lot of other women do too.

Do you think men all just got together one day and decided they'd make tits a thing? Nope. There is multiple theories and research as to why. Spend 5 minutes on google. The most plausible is that they evolved to find breasts sexual. I genuinely don't understand why this is a problem for you.

It goes back to the "well just because men like it we shouldn't like it" argument.

So what if men like breasts ?

I don’t know if anyone has mentioned this but for the 17272 people mentioning the macaroni lyric and how silly it is, it’s in reference to a viral vine video. Cardi got some of her notoriety from being on Vine so it is relevant.

I think a lot of it is going over people’s heads on here because they’re not the target demographic / not familiar with the references.

I can totally understand why many people wouldn’t want to listen to this, or are even offended by the lyrics. But I hope you’re equally offended by the countless rap songs by males with similar lyrics. Or far worse lyrics, which not only talk about sexual stuff but violence, trafficking etc etc.

I don’t think it’s doing much for women in general day to day life in terms of empowerment. But within rap and that space, yes this is notable.

I love Cardi and the song 🤷🏻‍♀️

Also, a few people commented on there not being worse male songs. Look up Necro - Sexorcist and prepare to (understandably) clutcheth one’s pearls.

In my own experience and that of female friends, the number of male sexual partners who expect to receive oral sex from sexual partners but not give it to women is stupidly unbalanced. A lot of men think it’s gross. I personally now as an older woman wouldn’t want to be with a man who felt that way and therefore I think this song is empowering to women to know what you and your body likes and not be afraid to ask for it. That’s what it does for me. It’s also funny, she’s entertaining, she’s light hearted, she seems genuine to me and not faking it for the fat cat record execs (still looking at Madonna and Britney)

Why don’t the opposers spend time googling how not so long ago, women were tied to beds and manually stimulated by men to orgasm to cure ‘hysteria’. The dildo was invented by men as a medical aid as women were seen as psychos

So yeah. A woman taking control of her own sexual organ and talking and singing about it is ok by me.

For anyone interested in what might have happened to you in the 1890’s if you were a female

www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/all-about-sex/201303/hysteria-and-the-strange-history-vibrators

[quote tyrinn]@Leflic

Available. Happy to accommodate

I'm not even sure we're talking about the same song anymore. To me the song isn't saying they're available at all, in fact it's quite the opposite. And yes, because jumping on your man's face and grinding all over him has always been seen as the meek and accommodating thing to do, right?

You speak of representation. Remember when everybody was sick of seeing model thin women? And then we were sick of seeing slim women? And now we're also sick of seeing arguably curvaceous women too?

Do we all have to be apple shaped now?

Is there a particular shape they should all be or is it just their pubic hair you take issue with?

Hence the women going topless. Men literally do it all summer long. And the difference is..... a completely non sexual one ( breastfeeding). Yet ours are seen as massively sexual. Because men define them.

I have big boobs on a small frame. I SEE them as sexual myself, although I've also breastfed both children. Breasts are sexual. Nipples are really sensitive - sexual. When I take my top my off I pretty feel aroused. Also don't define myself as bi, never been with or had any desire for a woman, but I kinda enjoy looking at the female naked form and I know a lot of other women do too.

Do you think men all just got together one day and decided they'd make tits a thing? Nope. There is multiple theories and research as to why. Spend 5 minutes on google. The most plausible is that they evolved to find breasts sexual. I genuinely don't understand why this is a problem for you.

It goes back to the "well just because men like it we shouldn't like it" argument.

So what if men like breasts ? [/quote]
FfS why are men the default?

We as women are the greater population. Tits aren’t any more sexual than anything else. Aside to what men deem them to be? Grow up.

And how in this century they still don’t know bloody anything about women’s sexual pleasure as no one had bothered to research it properly

www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/03/3d-clitoris/518991/

Apparently now a big arse is fabulous Who does that benefit ..yeah ..a bloke with a rear view

Leflic big rounded arses and solid thighs have always been appreciated in many other cultures by both sexes. Maybe not in the UK or white American culture until recently (though certainly celebrated a few hundred years ago)

It may benefit women who do naturally have a big arse to not feel under pressure to diet or wear clothes to hide it away. They may like to show of their big arse because they know their body looks good

I personally now as an older woman wouldn’t want to be with a man who felt that way and therefore I think this song is empowering to women to know what you and your body likes and not be afraid to ask for it. That’s what it does for me

Good point well made, speaking as an older woman myself (assuming in 40s counts as older?)

m.youtube.com/watch?v=nPglNjxVHiM
This is Skunk,
As a fuck off stupid men, women have feelings too anthem Is this not thousand times better?

Yeah it’s from a few years ago. Compare and contrast.

We as women are the greater population. Tits aren’t any more sexual than anything else. Aside to what men deem them to be? Grow up

That comment as a whole doesn't even begin to make sense
I don't even know where to start on that!

FfS why are men the default?

They're not!! That's the whole bloody point!! People keep bringing it back to "but men like that!" fully ignoring women might too.
Therefore, if women like something, they're not allowed to or at least will be judged as it's fitting in with a patriarchal view and if the men like it we should cease and desist immediately.
Heaven forbid women like something men happen to like too.