To think single mums are viewed as having no financial independence

[KatherineofTarragon]

Inspired by a thread i have posted on.

I guess people still see single mums in society as younger and with younger children and at a financial disadvantage?

I am a single mum to what are now older grown DC's , have been for years. Because i have worked full time and own my lovely home people have frequently been "surprised" to learn i am on my own. It has got on my nerves over the years that people think i should somehow be different/poorer as a single mum. I think this is because people in general have pre conceived ideas about what being a single mum is.

I do not fit into their narrative. I have more financial freedoms than them and a large house i pay for. People generally do not expect single mums to have this so there is a societal connotation to being a single mum.

Are people willing now to accept that a woman can be a single parent, work full time and maintain her own home?

KatherineofTarragon

Get the point of your thread. You don’t like people looking down and making judgements about you yet all your comments seem to very much look down and judge those on benefits.

You come across as smug and incredibly bitter that you had to share your assets with your ex husband. I personally would want my ex to be financially comfortable so that they could provide a safe and comfortable home for our shared child to stay when they visit.

How are tax credits benefits in any case when they are supporting people who are working full time? Not everyone in society can be earning mega bucks?? That doesn’t mean we are worth less though. To all single parents who have felt patronised by this thread - it’s only one person’s irrelevant view.

According to what I've read in the press about Xenia, pretty much of what she says is true.

Is Xenia famous?

@heartsonacake

FFS. Seriously?

Enoughnowstop Yep, seriously. Divorced/separated parents aren’t good for the child. Being a single parent is not a healthy way to bring a child up and nobody wants a broken home for their child either.

It’s not a path anyone chooses, but rather a path people end up on through their circumstances. It’s certainly not enviable.

heartsonacake

Are you for real?

"Divorced/separated parents aren't good for a child."

Should I have stayed in a marriage with an abusive alcoholic who was audibly threatening me in my own home purely to preserve the appearance of not coming from a "broken home"?

Would my daughter have had better happiness and outcomes in an environment where she was witnessing aggression towards me from a man who would not provide any childcare or domestic support whatsoever? Or would she have done better in an environment where she had one loving and absolutely supportive parent who worked hard but made more money than she was allowed to beforehand?

I'm not going to get into a discussion about tax credits/benefits etc here. I think single parents should be entitled to the help they can get and should be applauded and supported for bringing their children up whether with government support or otherwise.

But attitudes like yours allow domestic violence to thrive, set a terrible example for children and restrict women's financial independence. I hope you are proud of your knuckle-dragging rhetoric.

Being a single parent is not a healthy way to bring a child up and nobody wants a broken home for their child either
Have you consider that your kids' teacher, doctor, dentist your solicitor, accountant, bank manager might very well have grown up in a single parent family? Even your counsellor/psychologist!

I'm financially independent. Entirely.

My DC are 13 and 10 and not long out of the expensive childcare costs. I juggle and struggled through that - single when they were 2 & 5.

I worked hard when I was young. I got on the property ladder at 22. It was affordable then. I feel incredibly lucky to have been able to do so.

Later I got married. Bought a house, had two children. That went wrong, he had an affair after 18 years together.

We divorced and again luck was on my side as he agreed not to touch my first property which I I had kept.

I don't make any money from the rental property although its equity has allowed me to raise capital on the house we live in. I earned well when I was younger and was prudent. Now I don't earn much but it's a choice. I'm there for my DC. Always.

My day to day living is very tight. I get no maintenance at all from ex - he's unemployed. I get no benefits due to my rental property. Typically asset rich and cash poor.

I couldn't be happier. I ended a relationship recently and I will never share my financial freedom with a man either ever again.

So I know where you're coming from. I'm immensely proud of myself too. But I've had to over come much adversity (different story) which causes my pride at being a single mum. The adversity means I'm private about my past (well, ExH past actually) So I get judged A LOT and I just let it go because it's easier than explaining our somewhat tragic circumstances.

I only know successful and financially independent single mums - 3 I can think of. Probably because I have a degree and am a bit middle class. I'm not friends with women outside that sphere but if I met them, I would have the utmost empathy on how difficult it is.

I think I am so lucky in the world.

Yanbu. It is great that women can be financially independent and shouldn't always be seen as helpless victims. Well done OP.

I really am sorry if this thread has come across as goady, that really was not my intention at all.

I am older and i have managed to do well from buying and selling homes. I got on the property ladder young and at a good time in the south. That has helped me greatly without doubt. I have had my lean times paying mortgages and sacrificed holidays and nights out etc with friends when i was younger.

I was trying to say that when people meet me and i explain i am single, they make assumptions particularly as i have had 2 failed relationships and a child from each. They are often visibly surprised when they come here. That is all i was trying to say. People do have a view of what my home and standard of living should be like and that is what is frustrating to me at times.

I did leave my first husband in the house, i agreed to be bought out so that our child had a home with him also. But for him to do that i agreed a much lesser settlement figure ( due to his salary income multiples) and it did frustrate me that i put all the money in and after only 2 yrs of marriage he benefitted very well. I had even paid off his credit cards before we bought the house, he really did not put a penny in to get the house, in terms of deposit, legal fees, stamp duty, furnishings etc. My equity paid for it all. I left that marriage with far less than when i entered into it. I had to effectively start again. His credit card debts were for lads holidays , nights out etc , all the things that i basically couldn't do while saving and paying a mortgage years before i met him. I just felt it unfair. I am sure most people would feel same in that situation.

I have no issue at all with benefit support . I understand single parents become single parents for all sorts of reasons. I would never make any judgement re that. That was not the point i was trying to make. My point was that when people do meet me as a single mum of 2 , ( different fathers) they clearly generalise in their minds what my life is like and when they see the reality is different , i notice a real surprised look on their faces. They are basically making judgments about me and that is what annoys me. I do not feel i should be judged for leaving 2 unhappy relationships and that it is automatically assumed that my standard of living would be lesser because of it.

Again i m sorry if this post has come across in a way i did not intend it to.

@KatherineofTarragon completely agree with this point

I do appreciate this makes it difficult for me to meet someone, but i will not allow anyone into my home now unless they have their own home. I am happy to go out on dates, but that is far as it goes if they have not got financial security and independence. I will not carry anyone anymore.

I didn't particularly read the OP's post as goady.

Surely we're getting distracted here with a discussion about the rights and wrongs of tax credits/benefits.

For me the bigger issue is the continuing taboo against single mothers (of which hearsonacake was an almost textbook example).

What we all ought to be shouting from the rooftops about is that single mothers, regardless of our income or whether or not we are in receipt of state benefits, are a hard-working, focused and well-organised bunch of women who need more credit from society across the board.

We are all bringing up children in less than ideal circumstances, usually through no fault of our own, with fairly poor support from society. Yet all of us are doing our best and many of us are actually thriving.

I said this at the beginning of this thread and I echo it here: we all need to do a better job of singing our own praises and letting the world know we're not a bunch of ill-fated and downtrodden people who men have cast-aside but a group of people who are doing more than our fair share.

Society's perception of single mothers isn't grounded in modern reality but still coloured by an unpleasant moral judgement with patriarchal and religious overtones which no place in a modern society.

Didn’t see it as a goady post at all! I’m genuinely in awe of @KatherineofTarragon

How are tax credits benefits in any case when they are supporting people who are working full time? Not everyone in society can be earning mega bucks?? That doesn’t mean we are worth less though. To all single parents who have felt patronised by this thread - it’s only one person’s irrelevant view.

Tax credits have been replaced for the most part by UC, steering us back towards the benefits route. With so many headlines screaming about benefits claimants getting millions and 'documentaries" about life on benefits etc, that's where the stereotype is backed up.

I'm in a low paid job for several reasons, but your point about not everyone being able to earn mega bucks is a good one because we need the lower paid jobs don't we.
People need to have elderly relatives cared for and children cared for, they need shops to have stock and be clean and be served by someone, the demand for hospitality and leisure is huge, these jobs are the backbone of society and they need doing, and they need doing by people who know what they're doing too because the demand for flawless service is higher than ever, yet conversely these jobs are looked down upon as they do not earn enough to support a household.
I do wonder where a lot of people who 'work hard and sacrifice' would be without the services the lower paid roles in society provide. No one ever seems adverse to using these services but seem to forget someone has to be there providing them, and they're not regarded as 'good' enough to command a wage that can support a family on it's own.
Again, half the problem wouldn't be there if the absent parents were made to step up and take responsibility, and actually support the child/ren they helped to create.
I agree that the state shouldn't be the other parent, but in the absence of any enforcement of that parent what choice is there?
If everyone got a job tomorrow that earned enough to support a family on alone, we'd be incredibly top heavy with management and higher roles with no one to do the actual physical work that's essential to society functioning.

@hellofromcornwall thank you lovely.

I think if i had not been so unhappy at home as a child i would be in a diff place now. I was desperate to leave home and then desperate to get out of house shares, weird land lords etc. I just wanted my own space, that was mine where i decided who came and went, when i moved and not come down to a kitchen with pots and pans piled up waiting to be washed and rotting food left in the front room and all night parties when i needed to sleep. I was so determined to get out of how i was living i was like a woman possessed. It was getting my first flat ( tiny as it was) and that has spring boarded me into each additional house, taking my increased equity forward into the next , meaning i had bigger deposits each time. Also property boom helped. If the market falls through the floor now then i will be in trouble for my retirement.

Those early experiences while awful at the time did spur me on in a way. Probably, i would have preferred to have had a happier childhood, where i could have stayed at home longer, been more emotionally looked after, not have to always do things the hard way. I may have even been more successful in the relationships i chose and wouldn't be on my own now.

I am a SP, self sufficient and don't get any benefits.

I earn a reasonable salary (£55k) in the north so have enough.

Honestly though....and this is not in the spirit of the thread...I wish I did get some benefits. The financial burden is the one part of SP'ing that I find hard, it is the only thing that keeps me awake - the 'what if I lose my job' thoughts can send me under in an instant if I think about it too much.

I do feel 'proud' of myself in being able to be independent in many ways, but I also feel the burden heavily and it so often can appear to rest on a knife edge. When Covid hit, I wasn't even thinking about dying of it, I was thinking about job loss and being unable to provide for my family. I sometimes wish I could think less 'masculine' (Please don't take that offensively, but the sole breadwinner role is traditionally male) and be able to concentrate on the things my female friends who do not have the sole breadwinner role are able to.

I feel like I live like a 1950's man. Constantly stressed by the burden of providing. So some benefits would be lovely :-)

@hamstersarse

I am a SP, self sufficient and don't get any benefits.

I earn a reasonable salary (£55k) in the north so have enough.

Honestly though....and this is not in the spirit of the thread...I wish I did get some benefits. The financial burden is the one part of SP'ing that I find hard, it is the only thing that keeps me awake - the 'what if I lose my job' thoughts can send me under in an instant if I think about it too much.

I do feel 'proud' of myself in being able to be independent in many ways, but I also feel the burden heavily and it so often can appear to rest on a knife edge. When Covid hit, I wasn't even thinking about dying of it, I was thinking about job loss and being unable to provide for my family. I sometimes wish I could think less 'masculine' (Please don't take that offensively, but the sole breadwinner role is traditionally male) and be able to concentrate on the things my female friends who do not have the sole breadwinner role are able to.

I feel like I live like a 1950's man. Constantly stressed by the burden of providing. So some benefits would be lovely :-)

hamstersarse

I know what you mean. I find the burden of having to be "mum and dad" a fairly heavy one at times. You're doing all the providing and all the nurturing/logistics/mental load/domestic stuff.

In itself this is manageable. One of the things I find hardest about it is that people in the difference "constituencies" both regard you as a failure because of your inability to give 100% to either. So for example I feel like my (mainly male) coworkers think I'm not totally up to the job if I'm not able to drop everything and do boozy after work "networking" at short notice. But the school mums think I'm a crazed career bitch because I have to cut my visit to the park short to take a call. I feel judged by both groups and that I'm selling myself short on both jobs. In actual fact I think I'm competent enough at both to pull through but its the perception issue.

As an aside, the other thing which I find highly irritating is being told all the time by SAHMs or women who work part time or just have more flex at work how shocked they are at how much I work (the unspoken implication being that I'm damaging my DC) and the comments about needing to "slow down" and "its not all about your career". When in fact my career is all that stands between me and destitution so it really is all about my career.

@thepeopleversuswork

Wow, totally get you on all of that. All. Of. It.

The new one for me is my eldest is leaving to go to uni in September. After 11 years of SP’ing this is going to be so strange! The dcs are very independent already (have had to be...another thing you get judged on) so the hard labour is behind me but I truly will miss our sacred daily family dinner time together and the ‘rattle’ of the house.

I think what I mean is that SP’ing has this awful paradox that you pour everything into them, your being is consumed by them...providing for them...then if you ‘do it right’ and they leave you on your own. With no partner.

I am so thrilled he’s leaving to make his own life but jeez my empty nest is gonna be cluck cluck clucking, especially knowing I’ve only 2 years before the youngest leaves too.

I know it’s a change all parents go through but it seems especially harsh when you’ve done it on your own and are left on your own

God I’m depressing today

Yes @hamstersarse I am worried about being on my own when they all leave - they are currently 14, 16 and 18 and the eldest is doing another year at school so it isn’t for now, but it’s looming.

People are 😳 when they find out that I'm buying my ex out of the house and I will have to pay him a settlement rather than the other way round. There's an expectation that single mums are helpless beings who just hold out their hands for charity, it's a very Victorian mindset really, especially with all the moralising. I still get some tax credits too due to having a DC with SN so I don't look down on people who get help as I'm one of them to an extent.

@DrCoconut

People are 😳 when they find out that I'm buying my ex out of the house and I will have to pay him a settlement rather than the other way round. There's an expectation that single mums are helpless beings who just hold out their hands for charity, it's a very Victorian mindset really, especially with all the moralising. I still get some tax credits too due to having a DC with SN so I don't look down on people who get help as I'm one of them to an extent.

Yes I've had that as well.

I had to remortgage to buy my ex out of the house -- I'm paying him and he's not paying a penny. When I called the mortgage company about it the guy I spoke to literally couldn't compute the fact that I was the one making the settlement. He kept asking me why I needed to remortgage when my husband was making a settlement to me. I had to spell it out two or three times before he digested it.

You're right, it is a totally Victorian mindset.

Also while I'm a big supporter of single parent charities like Gingerbread who I think generally fulfill a useful function, I think the focus on poverty in single parenthood has inadvertantly prolonged this perception. I totally get that single parents are generally worse off and they need support and advocacy, so it may be necessary to do this, but one of the unintended consequences has been to perpetuate the idea that its impossible to support yourself as a lone parent.

@thepeopleversuswork - what you said about trying to be mum and dad and work like you don’t have kids. I also agree re Victorian mindsets - I was the higher earner and ex is pretty rubbish with money