To think private schooling should be abolished

[year5teacher]

Just to preface, I’m not criticising individual parents. You have to do what you consider best for your child - for example if the choice was a private school with excellent dyslexia support and a state school that was notoriously bad, for example, you must make the correct judgement for your child.

Just to get that out the way so the thread isn’t flooded with “well I sent DC to private school because...”. I’m not talking about individuals, I’m talking about the system as a whole.

AIBU to believe it’s morally wrong for us as a society to allow children of higher earners to access a generally better level of education, which in turn can affect their trajectories for the rest of their lives?

Trust me, I know I’m getting a Tory government for the rest of my life. You don’t have to tell me that.

Good. At least you know people who hold your twisted values won't be getting in. Enjoy.

Part of why our entire education system in England would crumble if we tried to eradicate faith schools is that a lot of school land and facilities belong to churches. The state can't afford to either buy them out (& couldn't force them) or replace it. The same goes for private schools - even with the labour manifesto, it was acknowledged that it would require tax rises and that there is a legal limit on what they could do to force a private school into the state sector.

Inequality is a major social issue, but I wouldn't peg the solution on abolishing private schools or even lay the blame at their door. Social systems are more complicated than that and grand claims that this will be the solution to everything are pretty much always wrong.

And yes, house size does have long term effects on life outcomes and health, there is a wealth of research on the impact involved with inadequate housing. I think housing may be a far bigger issue than whether one's school has their own chapel (though one of the new local state schools here is attached to the local cathedral, I guess we'll see if that makes a difference to their achievement in later life).

Parents bare most responsibility but I agree state schools often don’t push their brightest hard enough. One of my best friends was a straight A student, but was never really pushed to apply for Oxbridge. He got straight As in the end (this was 20+ years ago) but just went to a Top 15 university.

There was a good article called the secret teacher in the guardian that talks about schools being a left wing echo chamber

If that were true, or if it had any significant impact on students, then everyone would be leaving school a socialist wouldn't they?

There was a good article called the secret teacher in the guardian that talks about schools being a left wing echo chamber.

Now this I do agree with, even though quite clearly I add to that. There was an incident in the staff room around 2017 when a colleague was slagging off Tory voters and just assuming everyone around her voted labour. Which they didn’t. It wasn’t good.

Seriously though, I really would never discuss politics with children. I’m not there to give them my views - that is inappropriate and does nothing to facilitate any discussion because then children feel they can’t take a different side.

In the classroom it doesn’t matter what I think, it matters what the kids think and how they express that.

@KarenFitzkaren

Trust me, I know I’m getting a Tory government for the rest of my life. You don’t have to tell me that.

Good. At least you know people who hold your twisted values won't be getting in. Enjoy.

My twisted values of children having equality of opportunity?

Never mind worrying about private schools. It should be a concern to all that teachers like OP are indoctrinating children in state schools.

Never mind worrying about private schools. It should be a concern to all that teachers like OP are indoctrinating children in state schools

LMAO

@sst1234

Never mind worrying about private schools. It should be a concern to all that teachers like OP are indoctrinating children in state schools.

Let me just refer you to my comment about three up from yours.

I haven’t given a personal attack to anyone - ok, it was a bit rude to say I switched off to someone, but their comment I was replying to was quite unpleasant and rant-y. It’s actually pretty offensive to accuse me of wanting to brainwash children.

@fsklgf

There was a good article called the secret teacher in the guardian that talks about schools being a left wing echo chamber

If that were true, or if it had any significant impact on students, then everyone would be leaving school a socialist wouldn't they?

Errr, they do. Until they grow up and realize that they wouldn’t be able to afford iPhones and weekends in Spanish sun in a socialist utopia.

If private schools were banned I would be able to give each of my kids a whopping huge deposit on their first home

So education or propriety - either way my kids are going to have an advantage in life as they have higher earning parents.

I feel that ability grouping basically limits children, teachers all know that kids know if they’re in the top/bottom table even if you try to hide it

Why is this a problem?

You shouldn’t hold high achieving children back, and it is counterproductive to have slower children try to work to the average. Both the top and bottom quartile of children are hurt by this attitude.

@fsklgf it’s the second time I’ve been accused of indoctrinating children.

Not sure how people think I have time to do this in between maths, grammar, and washing our fucking hands 50 times a day!

@Therewillbetroubleahead

Parents who send their kids to Eaton will continue to send their kids to Eton if private schools were abolished. The only difference would be Eton would relocate abroad.

Good point.

@Wasabiaddiction

If private schools were banned I would be able to give each of my kids a whopping huge deposit on their first home

So education or propriety - either way my kids are going to have an advantage in life as they have higher earning parents.

Ah but don’t you know that banning private schools wouldn’t be enough, next it would ban parents from helping children onto property ladder. And on it goes.

The thing is, OP, a lot of the people who think Labour are middle class wokesters are left wing, just not metropolitan elite 'left-wing'. I loathe the Tories and the Daily Mail, am a state educated state school teacher and consider myself at least centre-left, but I agree with KarenFitzkaren about Labour. I have voted Lib Dem but have major problems with them too now.

The left wing echo chamber effect affects how the schools are run locally. It is the organisational decision making that is then ineffective due to caring more about following left wing ideology than about finding out what works and going with that (even if it is what a right winger would like).

*So, if NMW is high enough to be a living wage then I don't care if lots of people earn more than NMW.

If NHS cancer care is good enough, I don't care if some people buy BUPA for extras on the cancer care.*

If state schools are good enough , I don't care if private schools are better.

This is an excellent point and really well put.

@sst1234
She has expressly stated that she never discusses politics with children. Why does it worry you that some teachers have personal/political beliefs which do not match your own? Most would consider that something to celebrate. A free society.

I think the reason that mn is right wing on private schools is a bit of a symptom /cause thing. Its very hard to work out if private schools exist as a symptom of a very unequal society or they are causing it. It certainly looks like they help perpetuate it but by how much? Schools are always seen as being able to fix all of societies ills. The reality is much more complex. People dissmissing access to food, transport, housing, healthcare as not the same thing are really missing how significant all these things are on outcomes too.

@Onestepup

MN is astoundingly right-wing on private schools, when left-wing on nearly everything else

It's because private schools isn't a right or left issue

I am a woke lefty who has taken all my kids to pride, BLM marches, trans rights marches. I protested against JK Rowling yet send my children to private school

My politics don't effect what is best for my child.

@lazylinguist

The thing is, OP, a lot of the people who think Labour are middle class wokesters are left wing, just not metropolitan elite 'left-wing'. I loathe the Tories and the Daily Mail, am a state educated state school teacher and consider myself at least centre-left, but I agree with KarenFitzkaren about Labour. I have voted Lib Dem but have major problems with them too now.

Yeah, I can get that. Ultimately, no party is perfect, and like I said the only way that I would vote labour now is to avoid the tories (look how well that went!) also like I said, the way labour conspired against corbyn and how they’ve treated Diane abbott is so horrible that I just feel disgusted by them. I’m certainly not a dyed-in-the-wool labour voter.

It’s hard because I did feel that corbyn had conviction and it was the first time I ever felt like a politician actually could enact any real change. That was probably naive of me.

Worth mentioning that the private school sector collectively probably had a big sigh a relief last December following the election result, yet just a few months later a lot of independent schools are now facing the biggest threat to their financial viability, and there have been predictions that many will close, just not for the reasons mentioned in the OP.

A lot of fee-paying schools were already under financial strain even before covid, but now add in the reduction in fees they've been able to charge last term (and potentially in future terms if there's a second wave/lockdown), the biggest recession for a century and major job losses meaning fewer people can afford to send their children to such schools, potential loss of lucrative international students due to potential future travel restrictions, Brexit and increasing political tensions with China, and a massive hike in contributions to the Teacher Pension Scheme.

The thread below discuss a lot of this. While the sector will continue... it's only a matter of time before more private schools go bust.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/3868573-Long-term-effect-of-coronavirus-crisis-on-private-school-sector

@TorkTorkBam
The “left” is far from blameless, but I believe it is the right which is obsessed with academies with little evidence to support. And it was Gove, a right winger, infamously obsessed with outdated teaching methods which were rubbished by headteachers and educational experts. Or are you one of those “anti experts” types so beloved by Trump?

I don't see what's wrong with having a philosophical discussion of how society could be better without necessarily having all the answers and knowing exactly how it would all work. If it were that easy to put into practice, then it wouldn't need to be a discussion, we could just do it.

Laughing off the idea of equal access to education, housing, etc. as impossible and saying things like "life isn't fair, deal with it" shows severe shortsightedness though. Thankfully, humanity as a whole is generally more ambitious and forward-thinking than that, so things are likely to change at some point in the future.