To think private schooling should be abolished

[year5teacher]

Just to preface, I’m not criticising individual parents. You have to do what you consider best for your child - for example if the choice was a private school with excellent dyslexia support and a state school that was notoriously bad, for example, you must make the correct judgement for your child.

Just to get that out the way so the thread isn’t flooded with “well I sent DC to private school because...”. I’m not talking about individuals, I’m talking about the system as a whole.

AIBU to believe it’s morally wrong for us as a society to allow children of higher earners to access a generally better level of education, which in turn can affect their trajectories for the rest of their lives?

@Durgasarrow

My parents made great sacrifices to send me to a private school because I was being bullied in the local schools. They were a lifesaver.

Dh’s parents did something similar, @Durgasarrow. I’ve seen photos of him taken 6 months apart, before and after they moved him, and the first shows a pale, unhappy child, and the second shows a happy young man. It was the school that made the difference.

When I was bullied at my state school, my parents did nothing to help me. Zero. I got told ‘ignore it - sticks and stones will hurt your bones but calling names can’t hurt you’ (it was verbal bullying and exclusion).

That was mum, and not only did she leave me feeling it was my fault that the bullying carried on, and I couldn’t go back and tell her about it because then she’d tell me I’d failed too - but she didn’t even ask me once, if things were getting better.

@DoubleTweenQueen

Centres of excellence exist because they are privately funded and not publicly owned.

There are some excellent schools and practices in the public sector - why is that not possible across the board?

Oh make up your mind! If excellent schools require private funding, by definition there wouldn’t be any in the state system.

The reason so many state schools are so poor is lack of political will. Why bother educating wage slaves to any level but the absolute minimum?

Op you seem open and thoughtful which will make you a good teacher no doubt.

Thanks for the detail in your answer re classroom groupings with HA / LA (which I took as higher ability and lower ability?) Having kids in a mixed ability school I had looked into this (just via the internet!) a while back. My takeaway then was even according to the more enthusiastic experts it didn't seem to be the best option for high ability. (Indeed our school system here says it's focussed on closing the attainment gap. So that's handy.)

Then there's real life which is naturally a different thing from the theory. Not all classes are going to be the best.

However my original question was in fact about something subtly or not so subtly different to HA and LA : the rich / potential private school kid sitting by the poorer kid.

My kids could go private. Do they affect their classmates now or do I need to send them private for a term for them to gain this superpower? Ok I'm making a joke of it but really I do not see this in real life at all. I don't think kids at the majority of private schools are so different. They just are expected to do more work by their school, ime.

One of my kids is dyslexic too. (Neither brought up the school average nor inspired classmates to achieve. Actually mixed ability was fine for them in terms of content. Terrible at teaching them writing skills and MFL though.
It is a very inefficient system to give kids skills surely?

Do stop being needlessly rude. There is a great deal of variation in both sectors. Excellent private schools are so because they are well funded. Excellent state schools are extremely well managed. There is appalling use of funds in many academy trusts, which are privatisation without accountability to anyone.

Your second remark answers exactly why your educational nirvana is a pipe dream and private education will always be in demand.

Your second remark answers exactly why your educational nirvana is a pipe dream and private education will always be in demand

Of course it does. I realise it’s nirvana because I’m completely clear eyed about the system and how it works. It’s so clever that it cons parents into paying for slightly better schools that produce slightly higher grade wage slaves. The level of education that produces people in a position to effect any change prices out anyone but the wealthiest.

SDTG that sounds awful.

I have a socialist parent who extols comprehensives and would ban privates.
Didn't like my first hand accounts.

Prices out? From where?

@VinylDetective

Your second remark answers exactly why your educational nirvana is a pipe dream and private education will always be in demand

Of course it does. I realise it’s nirvana because I’m completely clear eyed about the system and how it works. It’s so clever that it cons parents into paying for slightly better schools that produce slightly higher grade wage slaves. The level of education that produces people in a position to effect any change prices out anyone but the wealthiest.

We have to be careful with the assumption that it's even slightly better. In my area, we have a state primary and a state secondary (both LA schools) that consistently perform better than the local privates in terms of outcomes.

Vinyl I kind of agree with your final remark.

I think home education is an interesting option now with the internet.

Would those seeking equality want to ban home ed?

Home ed is a lifeline for many kids and often a fantastic and enriching option.

Tork I agree.

I'm afraid I think destroying grammars before getting excellent replacement in place first, has pulled the ladder out from all children who may have had the chance.

Grammars were ripped away and replaced with a system that didn't function properly. The head of ofsted admitted we are falling the top set students in many comps.

Hence progress 8.

Now people scratch heads as to why politics for instance is dominated by public schools still.
That middle ladder was kicked away.
Now grammars are the preserve of middle class etc.

Make state education better. And before funding is screamed out, example before, asking a politician to come into the school to speak... How much would that cost?

@SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius and @CommonCarder - same here. Badly bullied at stae school, which my socialist parents insisted was wonderful. (It was shit academically, pastorally and SEN friends had the worst time of it. We still discuss 40 years on, how it failed us all from the very academic who were bullied and discouraged by teachers as well as peers to the struggling who were mocked and abandoned. It really coloured my view of state schools. But then... my dad went to a private boarding school and loathed it, so he sent us to the opposite. There are good and bad schools in every sector. When we looked for DC we looked for the right school for them, regardless of its status. Turned out to be a private school. Our second choice was a state comprehensive school and our third another private.

@Swelteringmeltering
Make state education better. And before funding is screamed out, example before, asking a politician to come into the school to speak... How much would that cost?

That already happens. We've had our area's MP in three times in the last two years and we're a primary school: I'm sure the secondaries have greater access.

Equality should not be sameness, or one approach/environment fits all. For me it's about supporting all to find and develop their individual strengths and potential so they are able to live their best life. It's not about everyone being highly academic - that's just one route.

How much does it cost i am?

@Swelteringmeltering

How much does it cost i am?

It doesn't.

Sounds like communism.

But at least give all a chance to be 'highly academic'

I haven’t read the thread as it is so long but I agree with this sentiment. I recently had a health scare and was pushed into using private healthcare by my parents but felt very uncomfortable at being treated in such a place of privilege surrounded by people who could afford quicker and more thorough medical treatment. It just felt so wrong and unfair and that is how I feel about private schools too. I know there isn’t a solution and the majority don’t agree, but I still feel underprivileged kids don’t get a chance to change their circumstances in some schools and it would be much better to have a complete mix of social classes and household incomes in every school.

It's just it's been said earlier that top schools like eton get politicians in, and this is one reason why, those pupils go on to walk the corridors of power!

One thing those schools do do however, are clubs like debating clubs.

@Macncheeseballs If that was to me, please read my post again.

*destroying grammars before getting excellent replacement in place first, has pulled the ladder out from all children who may have had the chance.

Grammars were ripped away and replaced with a system that didn't function properly. The head of ofsted admitted we are falling the top set students in many comps*

Bang on. And there’s been no will to rectify it since. It’s really interesting that after nearly 1,000 posts consensus is beginning to form.

Mumma, I don't see how a child from a private school with wealthy parents would mean my dd would be educated? In fact, I'm sure many dc in our school could be in private school, and my dd still isn't being educated.

YANBU. And private schools certainly shouldn't be given tax breaks for their 'charitable status' from the govt/taxpayer.