To think private schooling should be abolished

[year5teacher]

Just to preface, I’m not criticising individual parents. You have to do what you consider best for your child - for example if the choice was a private school with excellent dyslexia support and a state school that was notoriously bad, for example, you must make the correct judgement for your child.

Just to get that out the way so the thread isn’t flooded with “well I sent DC to private school because...”. I’m not talking about individuals, I’m talking about the system as a whole.

AIBU to believe it’s morally wrong for us as a society to allow children of higher earners to access a generally better level of education, which in turn can affect their trajectories for the rest of their lives?

@ManxRhyme

What about extra curricular activities? Doing sport, music, martial arts to any significant level is expensive. Should they be banned as not all parents can afford them?

It’s not about banning, it’s about making that provision accessible to all.

My ideal (not ever going to happen!!!) world would mean that a good level of education where these things were accessible to all children, and not out of reach for some kids because of their parents money. All this does is just perpetuate generations of inequality.

Unfortunately with our government this will never happen, because they have an interest in keeping the rich rich.

YABU American public schools are funded locally so the same inequalities pop up anyway.

Also, you need the private school system to compete with the public or your children will be trapped in a state monopoly in education with no way out unless you homeschool.

Should be lots more options for children, actually

[quote dwiz8]@year5teacher now you're just getting ridiculous

Of course people should be able to pay for better health care

Otherwise what would the incentives be to earn more and achieve more in your career. Can't use your money to make sure your child goes to a better school, can't use the money to make sure you're not stuck on a 14 month waiting list for shoddy NHS care[/quote]
This is the thing though - the NHS care shouldn’t be shoddy, no one should be waiting for 14 months.

Why do people struggle to see that the only option we have isn’t what’s been given to us for years by a Tory government who have no interest in actual equality?

This is off topic now, but like I said to a PP, surely what everyone should want would be a well funded NHS so people don’t have to use their money to access private healthcare.

This won't be a popular opinion on here, OP, but I agree with you. I do not believe that core services such as healthcare and education should be available at a superior level to those who can afford it. We cannot eliminate inequality entirely, but we can work towards mitigating it. As long as there are private schools, there will not be the inventive to truly invest in state schooling, because those who can afford it will always have another option. The statistics in many professions are staggering - the percentage of politicians, judges and others in positions of power who have received private schooling is hugely disproportionate. But these are the very same people who will make decisions on these issues, and what incentive do they have to invest in state schooling? Their children will never go there, and it is in their interests to protect and consolidate power and opportunities in the hands of the privileged few.

I'm glad you don't run things. It's not for the government to dictate how people spend their money after tax. Sick of nanny states.

For social mobility you'd be better off making university free. I believe that was the number 1 predictor of social mobility

Find this very difficult to believe as university is way too late to fix social inequalities.

YANBU.

It's a ludicrous set up. But it is a reflection of how our society works and therefore is unlikely to change anytime soon.

Once we decide to pay teachers well, value carers, resource public services properly, many private institutions would lose their raison d'etre.
In the meaintime footballers and pop stars are overpaid, we're obsessed with our level of grooming and Love Island and the wawning chasm between rich and poor is getting wider.

And no, I'm not a communist. Or a teacher. And neiter rich nor poor

I agree, in a perfect world, but we don’t live in a perfect world.

I wouldn't ban them, because I'm generally not in favour of banning things. But I would treat them as businesses, not charities, so no tax breaks and none of that fluff about them benefitting wider society.

I went to one for some of my schooling but would be very unlikely to send my children to one.

@ElfDragon

The aim shouldn’t be to abolish private schools because of the measurable difference in standards. It should instead be to ensure all children get education of he same high standard.

(And yes, I know not all private schools achieve better results/give a better education, and not all state schools manage poorer results and a lower standard of education)

That’s my point really - I don’t believe that anyone should be able to access better education because of their money. Not because I don’t want them to have a good education, but because to me it seems inherently wrong that little Johnny who’s mum and dad make six figures can go to a great school and go on lovely trips, whereas little James who’s parents are low earners has completely different opportunities available to him.

If kids at state schools had access to the same facilities and opportunities as kids at private schools then it wouldn’t be an issue.

We need to hugely improve the state school system.

Don't drag people down, pull others up.

The abolition of private schools would do very little to address the huge inequalities inherent in the state school system already; all it would do is exacerbate them.

@GoshHashana

I would love for the whole private sector to fall, and for the public sector to be properly funded.

What does one have to do with the other?

Private schools are not preventing state schools being properly funded.

@KangarooIsland

I agree, in a perfect world, but we don’t live in a perfect world.

Completely true. I know none of this is ever going to happen in real life, people are too focused on furthering themselves and not thinking about what benefits society as a whole.

I personally feel like the entire system we live in needs to be remodelled.

Can I just say whether you are right or wrong is is a matter of opinion but your timing sucks badly with this thread on the day A level results have gone quite badly wrong for a number of individuals in both sectors. Kind of sticking the knife in a bit I feel,

Back in the 60s, Grammar Schools were an absolute lifeline for poor and disadvantaged children.
Unfortunately that has changed because state schools don't prepare children for 11+, so many of the kids who get in only do so because their parents can pay for tutoring.

You don't make state-educated children better educated by taking away a private education from other children.

In fact you would cause well off families to buy out the areas of the good state schools even more than they do now - pushing a greater number of poorer children into worse schools. You would also cause less funding per head for children in the state system - again lowering standards.

More scholarships should be forced to be offered at private schools in order to earn their charitable status, and everything possible should be done to undo (and make illegal) 'boys' clubs/ network/ biased recruitment etc. I would also support positive discrimination in recruitment....and of course most important, standards have to be raised in state schools. The higher they get, the less private schools will have business anyway. Private schools are a symptom of the problem not the cause.

In terms of the morals argument, I am sympathetic but why stop on the country level? It is morally repugnant that many children around the world don't even get to go to school.... our state school kids do because of their relative economic privilege..... why is that ok? Should we take away their state education until all children have the same opportunities? Probably not.

We have to provide the best possible education to as many children as possible..... HOW to do that is the question. I don't think banning private schools contributes much to the answer.

@year5teacher I went to a great talk by the author of Engines off Privilege (David Kynaston) on private schools. I’d recommend reading it if it’s something you’re interested in.

@FoolsAssassin

Can I just say whether you are right or wrong is is a matter of opinion but your timing sucks badly with this thread on the day A level results have gone quite badly wrong for a number of individuals in both sectors. Kind of sticking the knife in a bit I feel,

Like posters on other threads are saying, there’s a cost for appealing grades which private schools are more likely to be able to afford than state schools - especially those in disadvantaged areas. Funding for state schools is not exactly great.

It may make absolutely no difference, and the entire grade fiasco is an absolute disgrace.

Is this some form of momentum communist propaganda thing op?

No, I don’t believe private schools,private hospitals, cars or houses bigger than you need, high earners, expensive clothing, expensive food or any other such thing you can think of should be banned.

@Planetaryexplorer

I think yabu because ultimately it will just create inequality somewhere else. The answer is to raise the standard of state schools so that no-one feels the need to go private.

I agree with this

I regret that I couldn't afford it (not least because I had the benefit of it myself, albeit not at vast expense). If I'd made different life choices, perhaps I could have done. I don't begrudge it to others.

[quote lurker101]@year5teacher I went to a great talk by the author of Engines off Privilege (David Kynaston) on private schools. I’d recommend reading it if it’s something you’re interested in.[/quote]
Thank you! I will check it out

Righto. Like if you had all the money in the world you'd send your kid to a public school then? No.

Nothing' morally wrong 'about wanting the best for your kid ,education wise. We all want whats best for our kids.

What else would you ban, as others have asked. Private hospitals, more expensive houses, high end holidays. It’s nothing but a form of envy and a lazy socialist trope to say let’s ban private schools because they entrench inequality. And actually it’s the kind of ridiculous thinking that lost magic grandpa the last election.