To think that the Scottish government should not have caved over exam results?

[Notthemessiah]

So the Scottish government have caved in and have given their students the grades that their teachers have said they should get, despite the fact that overall they are massively inflated compared to previous years actual real results.

AIBU to think that this will massively penalise those pupils at schools where teachers were actually honest and realistic about their students likely results and instead benefit those who chose fantasy figures either through actual deceit, sheer wishful thinking or believing that the grades would be downgraded by some kind of system anyway.

Everyone was bleating about how it was unfair that pupils going to worse-performing schools got their results downgraded, but the stats don't lie - theirs were much more inflated compared to previous years that those from better-performing schools and it's ridiculous to think that all of them were suddenly going to improve this year.

It was always going to be an unfair system whatever happened but this just turns this year's results into a total joke - how universities, employers etc are expected to interpret them and compare them to other years is anyone's guess.

I hope that this doesn't happen in England and Wales too but it's hard to see how it can't - otherwise it puts Scottish students at a big advantage over their English and Welsh compatriots.

There is a possibility that the most deprived areas had the least experienced teachers that might explain the variation in predictions.

And riddle me this why were teachers in poorer areas deemed less capable of estimating then teachers in affluent areas. There’s a bunch of kids with over inflated marks that will probably struggle at uni

There is also the possibility that linear exams in general don’t help disadvantaged students. Maybe teacher assessment is more accurate- but not within the current parameters.

Why would teachers in poorer areas be less experienced that makes no sense

Why would teachers in poorer areas be less experienced that makes no sense

Actually I don’t know if it’s the same in Scotland as in England so that might not be the case, but in England schools in deprived areas struggle to recruit more than those in leafy areas as they are seen as more difficult places to work. It’s particularly stark in grammar school areas where grammar schools hoover up the experienced teachers in the region leaving the secondary moderns to struggle.

Oh Scotland is off the hook now, Mistress. England has just said ‘hold my beer’.

Based it on the results of former years made no sense either though.

Any moderation should have been based on individual students work.

Come and join the affray!
We don't have grammar schools at all in Scotland. No academic selection at state, catchment only. But 25% of pupils in my area go private. So even a leafy school here is still a step below the 25% taken off (often, not always) the top.

25%! Wow, that is really high for Scotland!!

Posh bit of Glasgow??

hold my beer

I was about to say that no grammar schools. My DC goes to what would be deemed a deprived school. The teachers by and large seem just as savvy if not more so than some leafy counterparts I’ve met. I think they really insulted teachers by that insinuation.

In fact one privately educated child I know is not academic and really was just keeping their head above water was awarded Nat 5 - 6 x A and a B.

As I said the minute no evidence was marked individuals were going to suffer.

There was zero chance of sorting this mass of appeals in a short timeframe. I think they did the only thing they could and I personally would rather this than the alternative.

Haven't rtft so this may have been said already - but to all those saying 'never mind, it's only one year' - well, not necessarily. Nobody knows what's going to happen with public exams next year yet. If there are significant school closures again over the winter then who knows whether school predictions are going to come into play again? And what message will this decision in Scotland send to teachers making grade predictions? It certainly won't be 'follow the recommended process and be as honest as possible when predicting your students' grades'.

I'm mainly worried about how the hell universities are going to be able to fit all the students in this year, given that they make offers on the basis that X% will miss their grades, and so won't get a place come results day.

All of a sudden all of their offer holders have met their offers, the universities are contractually bound to let them take up their place, and they have to find spaces in halls of residence, seats in lecture theatres, and (trickiest of all) enough suitably qualified teaching staff... all at next to no notice.

Fewer foreign students will come atm, so extra Scottish students could be very helpful

news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-a-level-students-in-england-can-use-mock-results-to-get-in-to-university-12047485

A-level students in England will be able to use grades in mock exams to progress to university and college courses and employment,
the education secretary is set to announce.

High-achieving schools are less likely to over-predict because they have less scope to do so. If your students typically get As and A*s, your estimates are going to be pretty accurate.

so extra Scottish students could be very helpful

Who pays for those Scottish students?

They will be funded just like everyone else

Maybe like the extra English students ....

The Daily Telegraph front page story is that ministers are under increasing pressure to scrap exam result downgrades and make sure all students receive the grades predicted for them by teachers.

They will be funded just like everyone else

By the Scottish government then. Hope they’ve put some extra cash aside.

There is no ideal solution sadly, it’s a shit sandwich. I do wonder if the SNP weren’t running a minority government and have an election next year in which 16 and 17 year olds can vote the decision might have been different

I am just so glad my boy is 2 years away from N5 and 3 years away from highers. He’s very smart but his school isn’t one of the top schools, I reckon he could have been downgraded if he’d been doing exams this year

This is the problem- it wasn't based on these students previous performance, it was based on last years cohorts performance. In any given year you can have a bad year group and a good year group - sometimes it can fluctuate by easily 10%. A few years back my school had a fantastic year group with exceptionally high results at N5 which carried on through Higher and produced the best results we had ever seen at Advance Higher level. We have also had year groups that we could predict well in advance would be a bad year for results and sure enough we had poor results at N5 which meant fewer sitting Higher exams the year after and even fewer passing AH when the year group moved up.
So to judge this years cohort on last years results of last years pupils was wholly unfair.

Yes. If his teachers were over-generous he could have been downgraded. That was the whole point of the moderation process that has just been abandoned.

But no one can explain why it was the disadvantaged schools that had drastically better cohorts this year compared to last.

Some of them will have, but it should have averaged out a bit better.