Friend driving us up the walls.

[Brot64]

Read a somewhat similar post here last night but cannot find it, so cannot contribute or ask what needs asking.

I have been bombarded with messages, text and emails, from a friend of ours since 6am this morning. I always wake up at 5am so the issue is not the time, more the messages. It's all covid related, conspiracy based articles, PDF's anti vaccine re:covid, how our society is being hijacked, how the world is being reset, how wearing masks is causing ill health particularly dental, the list is endless, followed by numerous messages. He also knows my mother, who use to be a virologist but is now a neuropathologist though not here , and has bombarded her with numerous emails some in which he has stated that the work she did and does is a hoax particularly in relation to virology (she wrote numerous published articles and he seems to be very interested in).

As she has not been responding he asked me to forward and discuss a report with her, we didn't actually discuss it but to calm him (I know, terrible) I did say we have and it's all the same conspiracy view. I have been responding so might have fuelled this, however I have clearly stated that I am not interested in reading anymore of the articles.

DH suggests it's time to call quits on the friendship. We have been friends since university, and all was well until covid and his recent separation. I have very much enjoyed our friendship but now I dread hearing from him. We cannot seem to speak about anything else aside from this. Am I being insensitive here? If you wouldn’t end the friendship, what approach would you take considering that simply telling him, we have different views and I wouldn’t be reading anymore of these articles doesn’t seem to have any effect on him?

I would go back to his ex and provide her with the evidence you have to show that you're on her side and willing to help with the divorce. She probably feels like she's fighting an uphill battle with trying to get the courts to believe her.

THIS ^^
YYY @JingsMahBucket

@Brot64, unless you have ever tried to divorce a lawyer with MH problems who is fairly high up in his profession, you have no idea what she is up against as she tries to get a financial settlement and protect her children from this man.

My DCs have all had years of therapy as a result of having to endure visitation with my exH. Nobody would believe me when I detailed the physical, emotional and psychological abuse the quite-spoken man with the courteous demeanour put us all through for years.

Please tell her you support her unconditionally and offer all the help you can.

Stay safe op I hope you get some sleep tonight the whole thing is awful

I think it may well be worth contacting the senior partner at his place of work. You should keep any communications strictly factual, but give the number of communications you and your mother have received in a short space of time and say that you understand that other female friends have encountered similar problems. Say that you appreciate that this is not directly to do with his work but, given that he is using your business addresses, it seems reasonable to raise it with them - not least because you have a number of concerns for his wellbeing which his employers may share.

Why the Police aren't issuing a Harassment Information Warning I have no idea. Shocking response from Police

@Alwaysinpain

Why the Police aren't issuing a Harassment Information Warning I have no idea. Shocking response from Police

The matter was only reported to the Police last night, they may well take some action today.

FFS - the man is unwell he isn't a 'Cunt.' He is having a breakdown. Anyone with experience of MH issues in their family would never use such a term. Educate yourself because it can happen to 1 in 4 of us, so if it's not you it's someone you know.
This man has become irrational with women and fixated , just as my brother thought my parents were going to kill him and trying to poison him.None of it makes sense except to them at that moment!

OP - people are getting hysterical. All you can do is block him on everything as and when he tries contact. Try to keep calm.You have already reported it and spoke to his ex. if he does turn up on your doorstep, which is highly unlikely, report to Police and say it's a concern for his welfare and don't engage with him. Stop beating yourself up. Its hard enough for families to help loved ones in these situations never mind friends - especially when they won't engage. The Police also can't just wave a magic wand but they can take him to the mental health dept of the hospital and hope he doesn't run off.

@Alwaysinpain

Why the Police aren't issuing a Harassment Information Warning I have no idea. Shocking response from Police

Because the police, who deal with an awful lot of this kind of thing, will have picked up the likely MH issues that are behind this and that will complicate the process.

I want to say again that nowhere is there any evidence that this man threatened the OP or her family. She may feel threatened but it's people on this message board who are talking it up into a potential home visit/ attack. He's asked the OP to meet him for coffee so that he can try and persuade her of his beliefs, that's all.

Holding a delusional belief and wanting to tell everyone about it isn't a crime. I can understand why the OP feels nervous but there are ways of blocking him completely from her and her family and business life: blocking all phone numbers, blocking all social media, diverting emails.

Those of us who've known people in the manic stage of bipolar disorder, or people who become psychotic, may well have experienced actual threats. My friend with bipolar disorder would leave messages on my and other friends' answering machines saying she'd break into our homes and murder us in our sleep. Nothing ever happened, but those messages were a signal to back off — as the OP is backing off. The mental health professionals I talked to took the threats lightly. And those were threats, not suggestions to meet for a coffee!

It wasn't until my friend eventually threw a chair through the windscreen of an empty car parked outside her house that the police had what they needed (criminal damage) to act. They arrested her, she had a psychiatric assessment and was sectioned. As a PP pointed out, there's due process to be observed.

It's not illegal to be delusional. It's not illegal to try and encourage people to believe what you believe to be true. Otherwise the Jehovah's Witnesses would all be in jail. It's not illegal to express misogynistic views — not yet, anyway. It's not illegal to hold views others would find offensive.

OP, I'd send a file with all the emails he's sent to you and your mother to his employer and say something along the lines of: 'I'm contacting you in strict confidence to raise my concern about X, who has been a close friend for 20 years. In the last 24 hours X has bombarded us, and others too, I hear, with innumerable emails and communications about his Covid-19 concerns and seems very unlike his usual self. He is clearly under enormous stress and I have asked him to seek help but he has refused. I am contacting you in the hope that you will be able to guide him towards the support he needs.'

And finally, OP, I know you say you are sympathetic towards those with MH issues, but you also keep giving the impression that you feel that he's somehow deceived you over the years. This isn't the case. The illness changes the person — temporarily with a bit of luck. The illness doesn't reveal a secret, unpleasant side to a person that they've managed to conceal for many years.

@Pobblebonk

I think it may well be worth contacting the senior partner at his place of work. You should keep any communications strictly factual, but give the number of communications you and your mother have received in a short space of time and say that you understand that other female friends have encountered similar problems. Say that you appreciate that this is not directly to do with his work but, given that he is using your business addresses, it seems reasonable to raise it with them - not least because you have a number of concerns for his wellbeing which his employers may share.

I agree with this post. His work should be made aware of the way he is behaving so they can take steps to support him. It's in their own interests too; what if he attended an important meeting with external clients and started spouting this crazy conspiracy stuff? It would reflect badly on the company's reputation.

OP, I'd send a file with all the emails he's sent to you and your mother to his employer and say something along the lines of: 'I'm contacting you in strict confidence to raise my concern about X, who has been a close friend for 20 years. In the last 24 hours X has bombarded us, and others too, I hear, with innumerable emails and communications about his Covid-19 concerns and seems very unlike his usual self. He is clearly under enormous stress and I have asked him to seek help but he has refused. I am contacting you in the hope that you will be able to guide him towards the support he needs.'

I’d revise this slightly. The emails aren’t innumerable because you know exactly how many he sent, so give the precise number. Don’t report hearsay about whether he has harassed others; stick to the facts about his contact with you and your mother.

I'm inclined to think that the OP and her mother shouldn't contact his employer unless any of the emails have come from his work email address. Then they would be entitled to raise it with them as a complaint against a member of their staff. Otherwise, it's perhaps best not to contact them. Otherwise, if he finds out, he could go off the rails completely and become a danger to himself and others.

what if he attended an important meeting with external clients and started spouting this crazy conspiracy stuff? It would reflect badly on the company's reputation.

Why is anything to do with his employer relevant to the OP? If he behaves inappropriately at work, his employer will address it. If he is subject to police action, his employer will potentially need to take steps (e.g. it may affect his practising licence). But the OP does not need to tell them anything, and is only stoking the fire if she does so. It may be that he is managing his issues perfectly well while at work, in which case the OP will be (rightly) blamed if he loses his job.

Block, ignore, disengage, and report any further harassment via the appropriate channel (i.e. the police). Stop agonising over his MH or what he might or might not do when he's at work - he is a grown man and not your responsibility.

Provide support to his ex to the extent that she wishes you to, but don't get over-involved. This isn't your break-up, and if they reunite when his MH improves (you can't rule out that this will happen - I've seen it before) you will be painted as the bad guy and you will be the one who loses friends over it.

Warn your mutual female friends that they may also experience this kind of harassment from him, and make them aware that you have chosen to block and disengage (it will be easier for them to block him without guilt if they know others have). But don't stoke the drama by forwarding his emails around and speculating about his mental state - leave it at that.

Many of the posters on this thread are loving the drama, but doing what they say isn't going to help you, or him. And it certainly won't make your life less stressful.

Thanks everyone for the advice once again and sorry for MIA I needed to catch up with the backlog of yesterday’s work.

I will not be reporting or forwarding anything to his employer. He did not contact us from the employers email and aside from sending us emails to our work email, and my mother’s work email he has not affected our business in anyway. I also do not want to add to any of the troubles he is already going through.

His Ex wife called me earlier today and informed me that he’s now at his parent’s house, he arrived there earlier today. Not sure where from but glad he is there as I am hoping they can get him help or at the very least he can have someone around him. He did not turn up at our home and we’ve received no contact from him since I last posted. Ex also mentioned that as far as she’s aware there have been no problems at work. Two other women friends of theirs have experienced this unusual behaviour from him prior to me, I do not know either of them. I did make her aware that I am available if she ever needed or wanted my help, although I don’t want to force my opinion/help on her. She said she would be in touch. I also asked about any previous MH issues prior to this current behaviour, according to her and his parents, nothing like this has ever happened and all this seems to be triggered by his obsession with covid. This obsession was noted by his parents as well, as early as April but, aside from constantly speaking about it and advising them not to take the governments advice on the elderly it was not as extreme as yesterday.

@Brot64 that's a slightly comforting update. I wonder if you and your husband's messages yesterday may have pushed him to get help. One can only hope though.

I hope for his and everyone else's sake his parents can get him the help he needs and that he recovers/comes back from this. You've done all you can and done all the right things.

I had exact same with a friend sending messages via Whatsapp. I'd message back 'How are you!' occasionally and he wouldn't even respond. Just message after message about Covid, Bill Gates, mask-wearing 'sheep', cashless society. I told him to stop, muted notifications and deleted messages. But I then decided to block him and that was that. I don't have time for Google Gurus. I don't think he is your friend any longer OP, he's on a different obsessive level now and probably sending messages to loads of different people. So your DH is right, time to get rid.

Anything can trigger a mental breakdown and if his marriage was on the rocks too this has obviously pushed him over the edge. The trouble is mentally ill people are often the last to admit there’s a problem. We had all this with my father in law before he was finally sectioned. According to him he was absolutely fine and even the specialist we took him to said he had mental capacity. Even when he told us he had cameras in his house watching him and that the police were after him. He told the doctors what he wanted them to hear and there was absolutely nothing anyone could do.

Sorry, bit of a rant there but you get the picture. I really hope that’s the last you’ve heard from him and that he gets some help.

I like this one MatildaThecat

Just ignore him. One of those people where if you reply, he will just send you more rubbish. Just ignore the messages

I would send him a message saying that his most recent response doesn't wash with you, you don't agree with his views and his behaviour is bordering on harassment and as such you are genuinely surprised by his inappropriate behaviour, particularly regarding your mother: she is a well educated, professional adult and by demanding you contact her asking her to check her emails and engage with him when she has clearly decided not to is deeply unpleasant.

He is welcome to "suspend his own disbelief" and come to any conclusion he wishes, he may not make you and your families lives a misery over it.

Then finish with: we've enjoyed a great friendship over the years and under normal circumstances not only would you like it to continue but due to him having a very difficult year you have a genuine concern for him but currently he lacks insight into his behaviour and unless he moderates it and ceases all conspiracy related activity towards you all you will have no option but to terminate your friendship immediately.

Bottom line: you "owe" him nothing. No reading of the material he sends, no discussion and certainly not the involvement of another adult who has no interest in engaging on that level.

He has the right to believe what he pleases, he does NOT have the right to upset or harass others with it. It needs to stop.

Create a folder in your email and ensure all correspondence goes directly to it. Your friend needs to learn a valuable lesson about boundaries. He may come to his senses, he may not but you need to stop encouraging him. Draw your boundary line and step away.

I don’t think it is your place to tell his employer, you could ruin his career.

I do however think if you are his friend you should try & enquire about his mental health / check if someone is looking out for him. What you are describing is a classic anxiety based breakdown/ episode.

You can’t fix things for him but you can check out what’s going on with him. We had a friend who did something exactly like this & it was effectively a cry for help. We reached out to his best friend who then helped him get some care.

It does sound like he needs to see a GP though.

One day of obsessive messaging. He's Discovered The Truth and wants to share it. How irritating.

But you (and your mother, by the look of it) are being irritated, not disturbed or threatened. Just let it ride for a bit.

@Brot64 Do you have contact (or the possibility of) with his ex partner or family member? It sounds like he is suffering from a mental crisis and needs medical support.

He is obviously unwell. I hope he gets some help. Someone close to me has become very obsessed about similar things. She smokes a lot of weed and spends too much time on Facebook. Im worried she is unwell, but not sure what i can do. She just thinks I'm naive and brainwashed.

I am glad he has some support in the shape of his parents. And you did absolutely the right thing in not contacting his employer. @CallMeBadJanet read the thread or at the very least, the op’s comments!

If he was in the past a really good friend to me, I’d forgive him quite a lot as he seems to be having a mental health crisis. How hard can it be just to ignore his unhinged emails?