Institutional Racism in our policing - Dawn Butler MP

[AuntyPasta]

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/aug/09/labour-mp-dawn-butler-stopped-by-police-in-london

The police stopped the car being driven by her friend (she was a passenger.) Unlike the elite athletes stopped with their 3 month old baby in the car www.theguardian.com/law/2020/jul/06/why-did-police-stop-and-search-bianca-williams-and-ricardo-dos-santos she’s had an apology.

AIBU to think that if she wasn’t an MP the police would be sticking by their ‘reasonable suspicion’? Is that what it takes to be dealt with fairly by the police?

She wasnt stopped and searched, she wasn't even driving like she implied she was on twitter.
The video is also edited so I dont know how anyone can make accusations without seeing what actually happened.
The policeman appears very polite I feel sorry for him that she has shared his face around like that just for stopping a car she was in.

Would you expect to be stopped and questioned by police each time you leave your home area?

If an expensive car i was driving did not match the number plates, and was registered 300 miles away yes I would. The police officer, according to DB, then realised that he had made a mistake, presumably he checked out as the owner, insurance etc, and the officer apologised to the driver.

But we do not see this part of the conversation. We just see the officer talking to DB on the passenger side

If an expensive car i was driving did not match the number plates, and was registered 300 miles away yes I would

Except they did match,

It was, as you sort of acknowledged, a fuck up.

@Flaxmeadow

Would you expect to be stopped and questioned by police each time you leave your home area?

If an expensive car i was driving did not match the number plates, and was registered 300 miles away yes I would. The police officer, according to DB, then realised that he had made a mistake, presumably he checked out as the owner, insurance etc, and the officer apologised to the driver.

But we do not see this part of the conversation. We just see the officer talking to DB on the passenger side

But it DID match the plates. The police claim that it didn't match when they manually checked ... but why manually check? There was no reason, the car wasn't driving erratically (the police would have said and ticketed), it wasn't listed stolen. No. The police chose to manually checked an expensive car being driven in London. Why do we think they would have concerns about an expensive car in London? I shouldn't have thought we have enough officers in the entire UK to service that sort of profiling.

Unless it was because the occupants of the expensive car in London ... were black. In which case QED.

She wasnt stopped and searched, she wasn't even driving like she implied she was on twitter

The conversation has moved on - to general police tactics.

I suspect some posters would be more than happy to have everyone stopped and searched, asked to show ID, to justify where they are going just to stop crime.

@AuntyPasta

From the Guardian

‘Butler said she had been happy with the attitude of the officer who dealt with the registration, and would not have complained publicly were it not for the approach of two other police involved.

One of them asked Butler where she lived and was going, and said the pair had been stopped because “there’s people who have been coming into the area”, without explaining what this meant, the MP said.

Another officer, a woman, had “inflamed the situation” by saying tinted rear windows on the car could be illegal, she added. The law about tinting on windows applies only to the windscreen and front windows.

“I had no intention of speaking about this until the officers became very obnoxious,” said Butler, who made a video recording of the incident on her phone. “I just felt that if I don’t use my platform to talk about this, I’m doing a disservice to everyone who gets wrongly stopped and searched, and all the black people who are constantly unjustly profiled.”

And what did she get for speaking out? A bunch of racist trolls who accuse her of lying, claim the black driver is white and launch a call to sack her. That’s racism in action.

So reading that, this has little to do with the original stop and whether that was just or not. It sounds like she was OK with that bit. It sounds like rudeness from other officers was the issue. The whole "should the car have been stopped" bit is an unnecessary distraction.

@chomalungma

She wasnt stopped and searched, she wasn't even driving like she implied she was on twitter

The conversation has moved on - to general police tactics.

I suspect some posters would be more than happy to have everyone stopped and searched, asked to show ID, to justify where they are going just to stop crime.

Nah, they know it means mainly black people.

By "crime" they mean black people freely associating and moving about.

My dad (old white man) was driving 200 miles from where his car was registered with ladders on the roof. He was pulled over by the police and asked for an explanation. (He was doing up a holiday property.)

He didn’t film anything or take to Twitter. Just gave the police his details and provided his driving license. It does happen from time to time.

Nah, they know it means mainly black people
Oh - and Muslims as well. Just because of terrorism and all.

We know what happens to groups when they are repeatedly targeted, demonised and arrested by the authorities just because they belong to a certain group.

The conversation has moved on = I will decide what you can post.

'The conversation has moved on - to general police tactics.'

I am commenting on a thread a response, this is not your thread where you dictate how and what people should say.
Bugger off with your thread policing.

He didn’t film anything or take to Twitter. Just gave the police his details and provided his driving license. It does happen from time to time

Maybe he's not part of a group who regularly get pulled over by the police and where there is a history of poor relations between the groups so doesn't feel the need to record something because he is more likely to be believed by the authorities if something happens.

It's a good thing the police wear body cams nowadays. Who knows what they used to get away with in the past.

It does happen from time to time

And your chances of it happening are far, far higher if you are black.

I am commenting on a thread a response, this is not your thread where you dictate how and what people should sa

No one has said she was stopped and searched.

So the comment about that was inaccurate.

chomalungma - would you prefer that London

But it DID match the plates. The police claim that it didn't match when they manually checked ... but why manually check?.

Why not manually check? Police officer is checking local cars, he checks wrongly, inputs wrong number or whatever, the number plate doesn't match the car. He pulls the car over and asks for details from the driver.

There was no reason, the car wasn't driving erratically (the police would have said and ticketed),

We don't know

it wasn't listed stolen

Doesn't have to be. Plates can be cloned. Cars can be ringers. Cars can have a history. Some makes of cars are avoided for purchase because they are seen as 'drug dealer cars'. Its a running joke here. I can think of a make I would avoid like the plague.

There are all sorts of reasons why cars can be stopped.

Why not manually check? Police officer is checking local cars, he checks wrongly, inputs wrong number or whatever, the number plate doesn't match the car. He pulls the car over and asks for details from the driver

As you have said before.
An incompetent police officer.

As you have said before.
An incompetent police officer

I don't think I have said that but maybe he is incompetent or young or was tired, but that doesn't make him a racist

@Flaxmeadow

As you have said before. An incompetent police officer

I don't think I have said that but maybe he is incompetent or young or was tired, but that doesn't make him a racist

It's interesting to see how you have interpreted my comments differently to what I meant - just as people do with their brains.

"As you have said before" referred to your comments about what the police did.

You have interpreted that as me saying "you said an incompetent police officer" before.

Same facts. Different interpretation.

The brain sees what it wants to see and can process facts to suit our biases.

Just as it might well have done in this case.

I think we’ve gone beyond wilful ignorance now.

Flax when you reach the bottom of the barrel, you’re allowed to stop digging.

I'm working class, I live in a high crime area. I want more active policing not less. I want more cars stopped and more searches. As a woman, especially on the streets I have to walk around on a daily basis

And you want black men stopped and searched more often because black men are more likely to be rapists ?

Talk about putting words in someone's mouth.

Looks like DWB+BMW institutionalised racism
Then two got bolshy when pulled up on it
I am white and have been pulled over once and threatened with a ticket once. Pulled over because I did not give way to a right-turning police car at a crossroads (no-one had priority) so it did a U-turn and pulled me over. Second time was a roadblock was set up and I stopped to talk to the officer (because I was connecting it to bank holiday/lockdown measure and asked if it was going to be permanent). He was fine - his female counterpart approached my vehicle from behind screaming that I had braked too late, why was I still there, she would ticket me etc - she was an absolute cow. (No traffic behind me and no real justification for the volume/tone/verbal aggression used).

As a white woman, I am saddened but not surprised by some of the responses to the Dawn Butler issue.
I truly believe that most white people are aware that this is a racist incident, but some people deliberately try to find any excuse to deny the existence of racism, even to the point of denying that the driver of the car was a black man. The mental gymnastics being used in this thread to deny racism is astounding. It is almost mind boggling that a number of white posters have talked about being stopped by the police and use this argument to undermine Dawn Butler’s assertion that the incident was a racist incident. These posters deliberately ignore the fact that a black man may be stopped several times in a day just because of their race. Denying racism ( when it is evident) actually causes more resentment and anger among those who are victims.
Black people have the same problems as everyone else. They worry about their rent/ mortgages, their jobs, their local schools , their difficult neighbour.. you get the drift.
However, on top of all that they have to worry about being vilified by the police, who are supposed to protect them . How very sad.