To be annoyed that partner looked during childbirth?

[IsoBordem]

I recently had a pretty terrible birth experience. It was the most dehumanising experience I have ever gone through. The hourly internal exams (done twice due to a student midwife) was already pushing my limits.

Before the birth I had one request for my partner - I did not want him looking down there at any point. During the delivery the doctors offered for him to have a look, even though I said I would prefer if he didn't. He ended up watching twice.

I know I am likely being unreasonable to be annoyed. I just wished the one person who was meant to be supporting me would have listened to my wishes rather than dismissing me like my doctor did.

@LemonadeAndDaisyChains

You know as well as I do lemonade what the OP was referring to with her comment about dehumanising. Don’t pretend it was something else

I'm not pretending anything, WTF are you on about?
Jesus, are people not allowed to ask questions anymore?

I mean, you could just read the OPs posts and those of other posters if you're genuinely interested? It's not hard to understand.

I feel like having expectations of childbirth is just setting yourself up for failure. As long as you both get out of it in one piece do the hows and why's truly matter that much?

I say that as someone who did not have a pleasant birthing experience the second time by the way.

Yeah it's your body and your wishes but I'm sure you would have welcomed extra checks if they had noticed something wrong when carrying them out and maybe you're partner just wanted to see his child entering the world. How many women had to endure labour on their own during the lockdown, I'm sure they would have loved to have their partners there.

Just be grateful and move on.

prepares to be flamed

IsoBordem I am so sorry that the doctor ignored your wishes and encourage your partner to do the same. I would certainly write to the hospital and complain about this.

It may or may not make you feel better but it may make it better for others in the future. If you do not want to do this, that is totally fine. It is your choice.

I am UTTERLY shocked that anyone would think you were being unreasonable.

I hope you and your partner can work it out and I would recommended some sort of post birth counselling. I had a rather traumatic birthing experience, with an infection, after C-section and I had a post birth counselling session with a midwife explaining the notes etc. Very helpful.

Well I’m not the only one that’s pulled you up on it lemonade so that speaks volumes really doesn’t it?

Not really, it just says that more than one person thinks asking a question isn't allowed or some disigenous dig or something
When all it was was a question - I don't see how giving birth is dehumanising which is why I asked how so? If others think it is then fair enough.

I understand the OP’s hurt, but men are often criticized for not understanding and embracing the reality of women’s biology and bodies (probably not the best way to put it but anyway).

The husband was probably under considerable pressure to look, a “no thank you” meaning “oh, your wife is in all this pain and distress and you can’t even stand to look at some blood and your own child being born - what kind of man are you?”

It was a mistake for him not to stick to his wife’s request but I would just call it a mistake and sometimes shit happens in the heat of the moment, particularly in a small space with lots of noise, blood and emotions running high. It’s childish not to acknowledge that.

We really haven’t moved forward as much as I thought.

And we never will as long as women support and excuse this kind of shit.

Id be more annoyed at the Dr. Your partner might have felt pressurised and in intensity of the moment just did what he was told. I think it also depends a little on what position you were in and what was happening. I had quite a difficult labour and the Dr was explaining things to us whilst I had my legs in stirrups in a sat up position with the Dr sat between my legs. So basically from my husbands point of view to look at the Dr meant also looking down towards my vagina. I think this is a bit different to someone waking round from one side of the bed to another specifically to have a look. I hope he understands why you are upset and acknowledges it.

@blacktop No the main function of a birth partner is to support the labouring woman and make the experience more comfortable for her, advocate for her (also studies show a known and trusted partner leads to better outcomes)

Plus the baby coming out at the end is often only a small part of the entire labour- I was in labour for hours like many women. Using that logic a birth partner would just be brought in at the end to watch the baby come out.

My DH supported and reassured me through labour, helped me feel safe and not alone through the contractions, knew my needs and preferences so was a great advocate, helped me maintain dignity. Then at the very end when pushing/baby coming out happened I wished for him to be up by head, holding my hand and encouraging me. Completely normal.

Ok don't think midwifes and doctors should be offering anyone else to have a look at a woman suffering horrendous pain. Yes it's the partners baby aswell, but tough. Saying that my dp looked, it didn't really bother me.

@LemonadeAndDaisyChains

Giving birth isn’t and shouldn’t be dehumanising. The way women are treated during labour and birth can make it very dehumanising.

@sugarfreemint

I understand the purpose of a birth partner. I was just showing my own naivety that it hasn't crossed my mind that fathers didn't watch the both, that's all.

I am not sure that I ever thought that giving birth was all 'Me, me, me, me.'

I felt it was about the baby getting out into the world safely. My own feelings and choices had some importance, but labour changes and that the medical team would have to decide whether other factors came into account.

I also saw it as a two person thing - not just about me. My partner who had helped make the baby and who would be one half of the team bringing the baby up was also part of the experience. He too was going to want to bond with the baby, and establishing that bond at the earliest possible stage was in everybody's interests.

Sometimes women will hate their own bodies and/or be carrying trauma. Sometimes they won't much like the baby's father and want him to have minimal involvement with the baby.

But I'd hope that other people share my sense of birth as a collaborative process. (I didn't have an easy labour, but I think it was easier because I accepted almost straightaway that it was something that I couldn't wholly control.)

*birth

I’ve long thought we need to start rephrasing how we talk about the childbirth process.

I’ve heard people ask “will your mum/sister be with you for the birth?” Which is a normal enough question to ask but actually what they mean is, will they be with your for your labour as well as the delivery. But the language makes the birth the focus of the process. It lends weight to the notion that the birth is the important part, I’ve heard conversations were it was stated that as long as dad makes it in time for the birth all is good. Almost as if that’s all there is to the process- just the birth. It ignores the really important parts like the labour, and the after birth stages where mum needs her partner, IMO, more than she does for the few minutes it take to deliver the child. The focus needs to change. Currently it feels like the baby is the focus of pregnancy and childbirth and the woman going through it is secondary. Babies aren’t property or prizes and child birth isn’t a movie to be viewed.

As long as you both get out of it in one piece do the hows and why's truly matter that much?

Yes because numerous women and babies can be in one piece but severely injured and traumatised.

The whys and hows matter just as much as the outcome.

We should expect better. We deserve better.

I think if you really didn’t want him to look you should have requested he be outside for the whole thing.

It’s human instinct to want to look to see the baby coming out - as it’s kind of fascinating, particularly when everyone else is looking and he’s being asked.

Sure, he should have respected your wishes but I totally understand why he didn’t in the heat of the moment.

But I'd hope that other people share my sense of birth as a collaborative process. (I didn't have an easy labour, but I think it was easier because I accepted almost straightaway that it was something that I couldn't wholly control.)

There's nothing to indicate that OP didn't see birth as a collaborative thing, but he didn't advocate for her, and the one thing he was asked not to do, he did. What about his actions were collaborative? Or do you mean that women should let the man do as they please so that they can feel like they are part of it? Also it's good that your coping techniques helped make it seem easier for you, but this is another issue, if someone struggles of has a hard labour that they don't deal with well; it's not their fault.

As long as you both get out of it in one piece do the hows and why's truly matter that much?

Yes.

Just like when a man goes in for an operation he should expect to have his dignity maintained and his wishes respected. He has to give consent for what happens to him. He should rightfully complain if his curtain is left open while he is naked for other patients to see and being told “ahh sure we’ve all seen one before” isn’t acceptable.

'I think if you really didn’t want him to look you should have requested he be outside for the whole thing.'

WTAF

As long as you both get out of it in one piece do the hows and why's truly matter that much?

This attitude is part of the reason maternity services are often really crap, and women's experiences minimised and dismissed. My cousin had an op last year, there was an error made which has left him with lifelong complications (which some women have after birth), and although the op itself was a success in terms of what they set out to achieve; no one has said to him funnily enough that he needs to get over it because he survived. The ongoing issue isn't major, but enough that they have bent over backwards to investigate, let him know the outcome, and been supportive- how many women have had that after births?

I would imagine OP used the word dehumanised because she felt like an objectified vessel at the time .

@Wereeaglesdare

It was me who brought up developing countries. I am in support of the OP and her annoyance at her partners wishes. But I feel the OP is focusing on something small that could of been in her control if her partner had listened to her instead of the bigger issue that the medicalised birth she endured traumatised her which wasn't in her control. That is the issue here the partner should have been supporting her but he decided to be a knob probably caught up in the excitement of birth not that this is excusable and I feel the OP has the right to voice this. However I can't imagine firstly a student being allowed in the room unless asked and secondly between the student and the midwife mentor and doctor carrying out instrumental delivery no one asking consent. This is not something I have seen before and simply am asking if they did ask consent but the OP felt too vulnerable at that time to say no. I was simply pointing out that at the end of the day the expectations of birth are not always lived up to and something which can seem traumatising to somebody if they have never seen alot of births or even been in to hospital and had an operation. But on a delivery sweet OP face to pube presentation and instrumental delivery with epidural is ridiculously common although not the birth that anybody wants. I feel for the OP but I just want her to know that there are alot of women who feel like this and sometimes it's the only thing we can do to focus on the positives of the experience which at the end of the day is a gorgeous healthy baby.

We were not informed that it was a student midwife. It wasn't until other midwives kept coming in to check on her and answer her questions that we found out.

I did not have a fixed birth plan and no set expectations - I wasn't after some dream birth and I have had surgery in hospital before. Of course I am happy that my baby made it here healthy and happily.

There are many issues with the birth experience that I had that were not at all related to my partner (stitches completed without proper pain relief, surgical sponge left inside me, left covered in blood for hours after the birth) that I will make an offical complaint about.

I was as vocal as I could be about my wishes - no one was listening

@Sexnotgender

I think it's a big moment for a dad too and what is the harm in him looking?

Because it’s the woman’s body and she gets final say as to who looks at what! It’s not a bloody spectator sport.

But it's his baby... I think the father has a right to see his child coming into the world... My OH saw our first being born..

It was an incredibly special moment.

If its for your own vanity reasons you didn't want him to watch I think YABU. However saying that, I can understand where your coming from.

I think you need to look at it from a father's perspective though... Most think the moment of thier child's birth is an incredibly special one.

Have people who say "as long as you're both ok in the end" actually gone through childbirth?

That's one of the rudest and most dismissive things you can say. Actually, it does matter. Feeling like your body is being pretty much abused when you're in such a vulnerable position is actually a big deal. In any other situation it would be taken seriously. And yes Drs are amazing to save you life but there are some pretty hideous things that can happen at the same time. My dr friend actually said some obstetricians have a bad rep for how they treat women and their bodies. There are great Dr's and there are terrible ones (for overall patient care).

A mother and baby having trauma after a birth experience shouldn't be brushed aside because "oh you both survived". This is 2020.

Yes the NHS is great in many respects but actually our health system (and maternity) has some serious issues.

Regardless of all of this, your husband should have respected your choice. I'm sorry you're going through all this op.