Am I being tight or is he?

[Flymeaway4]

My fiancé and I are expecting our first child. We live in my fiancé’s house and I pay him rent of £300/month.

He also rents out 2 rooms of the house to a friend for £515, but because the baby is coming we’ve decided it’s best for him to move out. So, my question is about what my rent should be now.

I suggested he work out the cost of his mortgage and all bills and split it down the middle, which would come to £390. He thinks it should be more......

Together we have purchased a derelict farmhouse, which we intend to refurbish into our forever home - we paid in cash and the refurb should start in about 6-9 months. We’re both fairly well off, earn about the same salary, but he has other houses that he rents out, so he has more cash savings than me. When we purchased the farmhouse, he put in a larger proportion of cash than I did (I’ve so far provided just over 25%) and the intention is that it’ll even out when I pay off the mortgage that we’ll need for the refurb.

I’ll add here that I was a first time buyer and had he been as well we’d have had no stamp duty to pay. But because he owns more than 1 house it put it up to just over £8k. To keep the peace I just paid half.

Since then, he has managed to save all the cash he needs to provide towards the refurb, c. £100k. But he is saying, instead of keeping it as cash and earning nothing from it, he could use it to pay off the mortgage on one of his rental houses now. If he doesn’t do this, we can use the cash for the refurb first, then I could delay getting the refurb mortgage that I need, thereby saving me money (it’s more expensive than a normal mortgage). It would be delayed by about 4 months, but this would mean I can get one with a 1yr term instead of 2 yrs, before remortgaging. So, to compensate for him not paying off his rental property mortgage now, he thinks I should pay half of it as additional rent (an extra £160/month). But, I argued that if he were to pay off his rental mortgage now, then he would also need an expensive refurb mortgage too, so keeping the cash is saving him money as well, not just me.

As an aside, I am not allowed to do my regular job whilst pregnant (not corona related, it’s just how it is) and am working from home, but my take home pay is reduced by about £500/month. So I’m also losing about £4K in total each time I’m pregnant with our child.

Complicated I know, which is why I can’t tell who is being tight/unreasonable.

Equally, we’re not married yet and he’d have no rights to the baby!

😭 for a high earner in a good job, you're coming across as a bit naive/silly. You do realise once his name goes on the birth certificate, he has shared access/rights to the baby?

Maternity leave is a bit tricky. I’m saving for it, if I need to take it, but I’m hoping I’ll be able to continue working from home (the work is not taxing or too time consuming, I could easily do it around a baby). But due to Covid there have been redundancies and a LOT of cost cutting at my work, so this option may not exist when the time comes. If I can do this, then I’m planning to give him half my maternity leave, as he can take shared parental leave at full pay, whereas mine is just statutory

He's fucking minted- why does he need your relatively measly (in comparison to the income generated from his properties/job) money?!

You do realise, if shit hits the fan (and I'm afraid having read too many posts like these on MN, I think it will) and you don't make it to the married stage, you'll be in crap situation. Think long term, protect yourself and don't make excuses for him to carry on his miserly ways with you- you're soon to be his wife ffs, not a business partner. He sounds financially controlling.

And before you launch into a defensive as with other posters who've challenged you, both DH and I are high earners. We bought our place a few months after getting married. He insisted he'd pay the mortgage/bills and I said I'd pay for all the fun stuff (refurb, holidays, etc). The minute I was pregnant, he asked me to save my money for anything I needed and he took over everything else. You might call me a kept woman sitting on my arse expecting someone else to subsidise my life but I've taken a career break to raise our children and I look after our house- it's fucking hard work.

I am astounded at the number of people who come on here just to make offensive comments.

You clearly don’t get it @rvby and can’t admit when you’re wrong. I asked a specific question about one tiny part of our relationship and you’ve made sweeping statements and come to conclusions you’re simply not equipped to make. I can and do stand up for myself and he will listen to me because he is not the person you’re making him out to be. I can’t see in any of your posts anything constructive or helpful, just insults and condemnation. Are you like this in real life or just online, where it’s easy?! If you have nothing productive to add I suggest you don’t say anything at all, because I won’t be.

@GeorgiaGirl52 given your background I’m surprised by your viewpoint. Clearly I came to the wrong conclusion about you based on your post, but equally we seem to have differing views. Pregnant or not I expect to and want to support myself and that is my choice. If circumstances were different I know we would be there for each other, but they’re not, so why shouldn’t I support myself if I can. And what a silly thing to say, we will both willingly provide for this baby.

@offandaway maybe if you had bothered to read further you’ll have seem many times what I meant by rent. Please reference that and my post above about wanting to support myself

@WellIWasInTheNeighbourhoo no, as stated before, anything baby related comes from our joint account. Ill informed, judgemental comment!

@CherryPavlova not exactly, no! A lodger moving out and paycuts due to corona have changed the circumstances, which necessitates another discussion!

@mumof2exhausted that may have worked for you, but as above, I want to pay my own way. See other posts re ‘rent’, I’m tired of explaining

@1Morewineplease I have read that post and will be putting it to him, although maybe not quite in those words.

@Nanny0gg soulless it may be, but necessary for us to discuss, no?!

@airbags there’s really no need for such offensive, judgemental language. @Hardbackwriter I found that helpful, thank you. This is our first, so I’m aware I’ll have a lot to learn, but I like to think we’ll have a sociable, sharing child before he/she turns 3

@Daisydoesnt Yes. Doesn’t everyone make sacrifices early on to afford better later?! We’re not content to live here and are desperate to move to the farmhouse, but it needs £300k of renovations first (not helped by it being listed and the Planners not visiting during Covid)

@sruitfalad yes, that comment’s been explained before, I won’t again. He doesn’t need my money, but is that any reason for me not to pay my way if I can and want to? But I want to fairly, hence my post. I’m not saying it’s not hard work, but just because that worked for you, doesn’t mean there’s not another way to do it. Not saying we’ll be doing it his way either of course! And amongst the judgement, there have been a few helpful comments and ideas for us moving forward, so I’m trying to listen to them instead of the keyboard warriors (which is hard when someone you love and your own judgement is being attacked). I don’t want to give up my job, I love it and that’s my choice, although it’ll be a while til I do my regular job again.

I don't actually think anything should have changed when OP was pregnant, but I don't think she should ever have been paying £300 a month. She should have paid half of his actual living costs, taking into account the money from the lodger, so £188. Sharing costs is perfectly reasonable, one of you profiting off the other is really gross, and it's a shame OP didn't realise this before getting pregnant.

If this man goes part-time and does the lion's share of the nursery runs I will eat my hat. If they ever get married I will eat the feather on top of the hat, too.

^^ this. I can't believe that he was making a profit from you moving in, and you seem oblivious to it. How long have you been living there and how much profit has he made in that time? That should go towards any extra contribution that you need to pay to bring it up to 50/50 now the lodger has gone.

If your income is reduced after the baby is born then I think that your contributions should reduced accordingly.

The horse has bolted somewhat but personally no way would i get pregnant with a man like this.

Best advice i can give you is fight your corner on the finances, make him pay his way and don't have any more kids with him 🤷‍♀️

How on earth can the op say with a straight face that having a baby is a joint cost and responsibility when she is having a baby, he’s not, she’s saving to cover the income hit from it, he’s not, and her income has taken a hit due to pregnancy, his has not, and on top of all this he’d like to charge her more to live there? He was perfectly comfortable profiting off her And this lodger when he didn’t pay any of his own living costs. Looking at that list I’d suggest the lodger come back, and you go, but as you think he’s great, you need to explode these assumptions that you pay for having a baby and he doesn’t, and profiting off you is fine but not off him. And do this well before baby arrives or things will not go well.

And do a scenario where your post baby head is an exhausted mess that can’t do 10 minutes work much less a few hours a day until baby is 6 months.

OP you're seeing strong language and what you perceive as "judgement" and "keyboard warrior" stuff in this thread because folk are flabbergasted by what this guy is doing, and what you are not just allowing from him, but even defending.

It is REALLY shocking to read what he's requiring of you and how blithely you're making excuses for it. I feel sorry for you whenever you say "we" - there's no "we" here. There's you and your baby, and him and his money. It's terrifying to read you explain over and over why this is totally ok and sensible when it is outrageous.

That's really all it is. I'm sure he thinks the world of you in many ways, but seeing you as a chance to make money, or avoid costs associated with his own investments, is deeply vile. Normal people do not think in that way. It needs to stop, yesterday.

You deserve better than this, and so does your baby. If you dont believe that then just stop responding, I suppose.

Who the fuck charges their pregnant fiancee rent. He sounds awful.

For avoidance of doubt his behaviour is not normal. At all.

Rvby is 100% spot on.

Politely you need to wake the fuck up.

It doesn't matter who pays what. You are a couple who are engaged/serious who are having a baby. It's all "team" money. You need to do whatever is most financially sensible and saves you as a team/family the most on paying interest etc.

If he doesn't see this I'd be concerned about the whole wedding idea.

Also - yes you should help pay towards the bills if you live together - but not rent - you don't pay rent to your partner. You either both pay rent to a 3rd party (if you rent your home) or you both chip in for the bill if you/he or you both own it.

Agree with pp - this is a recipe for disaster.

OP please protect yourself and your baby by getting married ASAP. You can have the celebrations later. Alternatively, you need to stop subsidising your dp's property empire and he needs to start offsetting some of the costs of maternity leave etc. But this is a much less secure option.

@Flymeaway4
Why does he think you should contribute more than half of the living expenses for two partners living together?

OP, I’m sorry because all this must be very hard to read for you. I had to post again because it’s so sad how conditioned your seem to be to equate “independence” with being taken advantage of.

What is happening here is that you are pregnant. You are supposedly a committed couple (not flatmates) who have made a conscious decision to bring a child into this world. You are going to be parents and everything you do now, from this day forward, will no longer be about what’s “yours” and “his” or who owes who what. It’s no longer about his money / savings / profits and percentages of this and that. He is not a separate entity to you and this baby. The child is your focus now - both of you. The money is all one and the same. What difference does it make if it’s “his” or “yours” - it will all go the same way - ie in your child’s best interests. It’s all games and nonsense.

Please can you try and understand how his behaviour towards you is totally out of whack to how most men would behave in this scenario. Most men will instinctively want to support their wives / fiancé once a child comes onto the scene. These things require no explanation. How can he even be thinking of what’s “his” money now? It’s beyond belief. What does he think marriage is? Some kind of landlord / tenant arrangement?

The way he is treating you while you are carrying his child is truly appalling. I’m so sorry, but it really is. He needs to man up frankly, and stop stressing you out with this nonsense. Why does he even need money from you? What’s he going to do with it? You’re supposed to be planning your lives - together - not as separate agents.

You say you are saving for your maternity - seriously, can you even hear yourself? If he can’t even step up enough to support you through that, he has no business bringing a child into this world.

The fact that he’s in his 30s, has lived half a life, but still doesn’t understand basic concepts that come instinctively to most men / humans in all societies is very worrying. If he doesn’t get it already, I’m not sure there’s much anyone could say to him really.

This is as far from “equality” as it gets. It’s so depressing. Please please don’t sleepwalk into a life of financial abuse. Having a baby / young child is a huge physical / emotional change for a woman. It’s not “weakness” to financially rely on a man for a while. You’ll be feeding the baby non-stop. He should want to step up in this way and if he doesn’t, then there must be something very wrong.

You say you are definitely marrying him. Well, he can play games of who owes who as much as he likes then but, if you were to divorce him, all assets are half yours, regardless of whose bank account it’s in.. Legally end of. So what’s different now? As I say, he needs to man up, learn some self-respect, get his head around imminent reality, and start behaving properly as a normal husband and father, not some measly git of a landlord.

Just tell him to shut up and don’t even engage in this crap ever again.

Sorry, but I will never understand people who have children together/plan to spend their lives together but divvy money up to the last penny and keep a running tally of what they and their partner 'owe' each other.
My DH and I have shared everything since we moved in together before getting married. There was no splitting the bills - we just saw our income as a joint pot of money, regardless of whether one of us earned more than the other.

...basically, what @ColdCottage said.

@Thisseatisnotavailable that was actually a point I found really helpful and I’ve thought a lot about it. I first moved in 5yrs ago and at the stage we were at it made sense. After that I think I never really thought about it and just went with the status quo. In hindsight, as soon as we were talking seriously about buy a house together it should have changed, so that we each had the same expenses and therefore saving potential. It will be a consideration moving forward.

@timeisnotaline who said he isn’t saving as well? And who said he isn’t going to pay for any baby expenses too? I think you’ll find I’ve said the opposite! And plenty of others in my job have made it work, but if I find I can’t I can go back on shared parental leave instead.

@LadyFrumpington politely?! What was polite?! judgemental and unhelpful based on a tiny snippet of information. What exactly did you think that would achieve, except make yourself feel smug?! I thought he was being tight on this occasion (and maybe he simply hadn’t really thought it through properly) and most of these posts have confirmed that, so I will fight my corner and make him see sense. He’ll be a fantastic dad and we will have more

Flymeaway - when I first moved in with DH, it was into his apartment. I think I was earning maybe £30k back then in my late 20s, he was probably on something like ten times that amount. We were engaged and from that moment there was never any talk about “my” money as opposed to “his.” No concept of that whatsoever. We just had the same shared accounts and when we bought the next house, obviously it was his banking bonuses etc that bought that (not my social worker salary), but both our names went in the deeds. There was no concept of a discussion around percentage contributions to this and that. We were starting a family and that was our shared focus. That was almost 20 years ago and our eldest of four DC is 17 now, but I couldn’t imagine having children with a man who thought his money was somehow separate to mine once children came along. It rarely happens that when two people get together, they have the same salary or assets but, this really shouldn’t matter if you are committed to sharing your life with someone.

@ColdCottage yes, definitely agree with that. ‘Rent’ as said before is simply semantics, it amounts to the same thing.

@WaltzingBetty I don’t think he thinks I should, he was combining too much and made it too confusing. The rest I don’t agree with and we’ll work together to make it make the most financial sense for us as a combined unit

@offandaway a much more considered and helpful post than previously, thank you. My thinking aligns with much of what you say, although not all. I don’t want anyone to think he is demanding money out of me and I’m simply bending over. But our financial situation is quite complicated and, whether others agree or not or whether they’d do it differently, neither of us simply want one joint account, we both want our own independence too and that requires a conversation about how it’ll work, which is what we’re doing now. It might not be romantic, but it’s reality. There is no doubt in my mind that our child will be cared for equally by us both and will be both of our utmost priority. I’m still not sure why anyone thinks saving for having a baby is a bad thing?! What if he loses his job and we’d planned to live off his salary? I’d be forced to go back to work early and I really don’t want money to be a consideration in that. If I end up not needing to use it then great, I can borrow less for the refurb.

I don't feel remotely smug... i feel mildly frustrated you don't understand what you have walked into and maybe a bit sorry for you? 🤷‍♀️

Fly, I admire your contingency planning if this is what you feel you need to do. But the problem here is deeper than that, I think. If I was in a marriage with children, and my DH felt the need to have his finances separate to mine, it would feel, to me, like he had one foot out the door permanently.

When kids come along, most of your expenses will inevitably be joint anyway, whether you like it or not. You could put your money in 100 different accounts and argue about who owes what and who should pay what proportion of what until the cows come home but, ultimately, it’s all going to go the same way. Life is complex enough surely, without all this faff. Does it not strike you as odd that you have shared your DNA together and made a new human, yet you can’t bring yourselves to share a bank account?

@timeisnotaline who said he isn’t saving as well? And who said he isn’t going to pay for any baby expenses too? I think you’ll find I’ve said the opposite! And plenty of others in my job have made it work, but if I find I can’t I can go back on shared parental leave instead.*
You said saving for Mat leave, by which I assumed you meant your savings would be used so you could continue to make your living expenses payments. Yes I’m sure he would pay for things, but in any reasonable relationship, living costs come out of money coming in. Your usual money isn’t coming in (or won’t be) because you are home with a baby - a very valid reason. Your family income is now his income and your mat pay and that goes to all living costs, if it’s not enough then you both contribute savings. If that’s not whats happening then it’s a shitty relationship and will only get worse if not stopped now.

I am astounded at the number of people who come on here just to make offensive comments.

Ha, welcome to MN!

I'm in your partner's position in my relationship. Have a massive equity in the house and other investments but still need a lodger and financially it made sense to have a lodger when I was living the single life. But my partner doesnt want to pay me basic and fair rent because he wants to either pays towards the mortgage and gets a share in the house or pays only some bills/food. I want to get rid of the lodgers so we get more privacy but he is unwilling to pay any rent. We earn more or less the same so not that he doesn't afford it. And he will have some living costs wherever he lives. He is already benefitting by living here as he didn't have to pay any deposit, get a mortgage and the rent is lower because I've paid so much of the mortgage already so its less than market rent because of me. And I'm wanting to get rid of lodgers because we are together. I feel like even if he paid me basic rent, it would help. Him wanting to pay only if he gets a claim to the house is ringing some alarm bells provided he has put no deposit money or anything. Our future investments could be shared but I also feel I'm very tight with money. But I wouldn't have saved/earned/invested so much with a different attitude towards money. I don't want my partner to have a claim in my investments because he is not that good with money. I don't need him for his money anyways so saying all that is mine is yours romantic stuff is hard to say and I don't understand how men do that. Anyways, at the same time want my partner to pay basic living costs and not live off me entirely just because we are a family. He needs to pull his weight.

But you are having a baby together and that makes you a proper family. I feel if your partner is paying fairly and not at your expense, then probably can see where he is coming from. He was willing to pay towards your loan etc when needed. It just seems like he wants his money to work for him better. But most examples are traditional where men provide for the family when babies arrive and its easy to fall into it so others would call him tight. Don't know if I'm adding any value here but wish you good luck. There is no right or wrong. Suggest what you are comfortable paying and see what he says. My partner is living rent free at the moment and I'll have to bear all costs with no lodgers it seems like. But I fear I'll lose respect for him at some point if he wants to live rent free as an adult unless he gets a share with all that I've earned just because we should pool in like its all one bucket.

Jesus you guys have made this way more complicated than it needs to be. Right, here's how to simplify.

1. Get married. Don't care if it's a registry office, but don't have a baby without financial security. He has that with all of the houses he owns, and currently you only have a right to one of them, the farmhouse that hasn't been refurbed. It's not romantic, but it keeps you and your child safe. You have no idea how tight he could become if you split up, don't be yet another woman to find out.

1. Make a joint account, put all wages into it, and have all bills come from it. Set money aside each month into ONE savings account. Talk to each other on purchases.

Done. Simple, sorted.