Am I being tight or is he?

[Flymeaway4]

My fiancé and I are expecting our first child. We live in my fiancé’s house and I pay him rent of £300/month.

He also rents out 2 rooms of the house to a friend for £515, but because the baby is coming we’ve decided it’s best for him to move out. So, my question is about what my rent should be now.

I suggested he work out the cost of his mortgage and all bills and split it down the middle, which would come to £390. He thinks it should be more......

Together we have purchased a derelict farmhouse, which we intend to refurbish into our forever home - we paid in cash and the refurb should start in about 6-9 months. We’re both fairly well off, earn about the same salary, but he has other houses that he rents out, so he has more cash savings than me. When we purchased the farmhouse, he put in a larger proportion of cash than I did (I’ve so far provided just over 25%) and the intention is that it’ll even out when I pay off the mortgage that we’ll need for the refurb.

I’ll add here that I was a first time buyer and had he been as well we’d have had no stamp duty to pay. But because he owns more than 1 house it put it up to just over £8k. To keep the peace I just paid half.

Since then, he has managed to save all the cash he needs to provide towards the refurb, c. £100k. But he is saying, instead of keeping it as cash and earning nothing from it, he could use it to pay off the mortgage on one of his rental houses now. If he doesn’t do this, we can use the cash for the refurb first, then I could delay getting the refurb mortgage that I need, thereby saving me money (it’s more expensive than a normal mortgage). It would be delayed by about 4 months, but this would mean I can get one with a 1yr term instead of 2 yrs, before remortgaging. So, to compensate for him not paying off his rental property mortgage now, he thinks I should pay half of it as additional rent (an extra £160/month). But, I argued that if he were to pay off his rental mortgage now, then he would also need an expensive refurb mortgage too, so keeping the cash is saving him money as well, not just me.

As an aside, I am not allowed to do my regular job whilst pregnant (not corona related, it’s just how it is) and am working from home, but my take home pay is reduced by about £500/month. So I’m also losing about £4K in total each time I’m pregnant with our child.

Complicated I know, which is why I can’t tell who is being tight/unreasonable.

I've known him 20 years and I'm confident he is not like this. not like what? He is tight... that is obvious... and he puts his own financial interests ahead of your feelings... again, obvious based on your posts.

When I say being tight is one of the most unattractive things possible in a partner, I'm obviously not including criminal wife beaters in the sample of possible partners the fact that you even mention that shows how low your bar is!!

I am a mum, I've done pregnancy and the newborn thing, I remember being as clueless as you about how I'd be able to work etc, I've also been through financial hardship and tricky financial times. My exdh and i were always on each others side financially and it was still hard enough, I cannot imagine how horrible it's going to be for you, having a baby with someone whose primary relationship is with his own money.

The qualities that make a man self made/a property owner by x age are not AT ALL the qualities that translate into a good father and supportive partner... your head needs a wobble...

I’d never get pregnant in this situation, without the security of being married. It could so easily go horribly wrong, especially if he carries on penny pinching after the baby is born and the financial responsibilities are landed on you.

Also: Equally, we’re not married yet and he’d have no rights to the baby

You’re absolutely wrong there. As soon as his name goes in the birth certificate, he has equal parental responsibility, married or not. Can’t quite believe anyone would still think otherwise.

Equally, we’re not married yet and he’d have no rights to the baby as several folk have pointed out, this is absolutely untrue unless you're considering not putting him on the birth certificate? Even then, he can take you to court and demand DNA testing. You've no leverage at all in this situation.

Really pleased that you're planning to split maternity/parental leave with him, and also that both of you will consider PT once baby is born, rather than it all falling on you. Best of luck with it all :)

@IceCreamSummer20 I am taking a financial hit and I was letting it go, but as he's counting the pennies I will as well! However, I am not financially vulnerable. Yes, the house we live in is not in my name, but the farmhouse is in joint names (and he has put more cash into than I have). Being married wont change that. And I earn a good salary myself as well.

@ittooshallpass if I go 'back' to work straight away it will be to a work from home role only, which usually takes up a couple of hours a day. I have no intention of returning to flying for a year.

@TheRosariojewels no, mine pays for another room, so my fiance and I use 2 and the lodger used 2. It's a 4 bed house.

@Hardbackwriter he counts him as a friend because he's lived here so long (7yrs, so longer than me), he didn't move in as a friend. I'm fairly certain they'll lose touch once he moves out.

@BrieAndChilli I do understand that, but it's not quite that simple as us having just 1 shared account. He has 5 houses and the expenses for those are his, as are the profits. Do we combine that too? That seems even more complicated somehow!

@rvby he is not going to kick me out and leave me destitute to look after a baby! He may own the property we both live in, but we have a significant shared asset in joint names, one that he has invested more in than I have. That is no easier to get out of than a marriage. Would you not also agree that nobody is perfect? You're judging him based on one quality. This may be his flaw, but it's also what's made him successful. He is incredibly generous in a lot of other ways, he has time for everybody, helps my parents and grandparents (and his own) around the house when they need it, we rarely argue, he works very hard on the farmhouse (instead of paying a gardener, which is what I'd do!) and he is planning to take 6 months parental leave (if I can work it with my job) as he wants to be a hands on dad. I'm not sure why I'm trying to justify my relationship, when that was never in doubt and never the question, but what more do you want from a partner and father?! I'm also well aware we're clueless about babies, but isn't everyone with their first?! And perhaps we're not that clueless, if we're trying to sort this all out now instead of later.

@FenellaVelour exactly what security does marriage provide that I don't already have? We have a joint asset after all, that he has invested more in than I have. And yes, it was a flippant comment in response to a silly post, which I've already said! I'm clearly not stupid and I would never keep him from his child, just like I know he is a good man, despite being a bit tight, and wouldn't leave us with nothing. I am not worried about this!

what more do you want from a partner and father?! If I were pregnant? Financial partnership and support, a sense that I have someone in my corner financially in case things something goes wrong, because money almost always fixes things or at least makes them much easier to cope with. Someone who isnt invoicing me for existing. Once the baby is here, you will learn what I mean.

I wish you the best, be angry with me if you want to, but also just open your eyes a bit and perhaps take action to protect yourself a bit better. Theres a baby involved here, it's not really about you anymore.

@rvby I've already said that isn't an issue. When redundancy was a real possibility for me, he brought up the idea of him paying off my training loan with his savings, so I wouldn't go bankrupt. I'm confident that if it came to it (redundancy, sickness, whatever) he would support us all, as would I if it were the other way around. But that's not the issue, I'm not being made redundant (and very thankful for it, as I have friends who are). So now, while we both do earn a good wage, why shouldn't I pay my way and why shouldn't we discuss what is reasonable for our situation. He had his opinions, which I thought were a bit unreasonable, hence getting impartial opinions on here. Yours and most other comments have confirmed that I'm probably right there and I'll make him see sense when we next talk about it. But you've attacked his entire character based on one tiny part of it and I love him, so of course I'll stick up for him in that regard.

I haven't attacked him entire character. I've said that meanness is hugely unappealing and unattractive trait in a man, and a scary one in a husband and father.

I'm sure he is practically perfect in virtually every other way.

I don't think it's fair asking you to pay more than half of the bills on the house - then he's just profiting from you and that's an awful way to treat someone you love. Half is fine if he needs that but to be fair unless you're going to have rights to the house - I think half of the bills after mortgage is more than fair.

He can't have his cake and eat it - you're going to pay the interest on the loan/mortgage for your proportion of the house renovation (which he won't need to) yet he's expecting you to pay half of the stamp duty that is only due to him having other houses and you would be exempt from paying.

He sounds very selfish and money orientated to me!! Not a nice quality in a partner or father.

See the thing is OP, it doesn't matter what any of us say here. Not a jot. You'll get the true measure of your bloke all on your own. Pregnancy and having babies is when a woman is at her most vulnerable. They either step up and do the shit they're supposed to or they hem her into a corner. I hope that everything is cool and the former for you which it most likely will be.

However if it isnt for some slim reason. You'll remember this thread and not accept it. I've spent a scary amount of time on forums over the years and people rarely post about something unless there's at least a niggling doubt in there.

I'm sure there are exceptions though.

Certain things look good: he has contributed far more into the farmhouse ( eg he has contributed £100,000 for every circa £33,333 you have) and this property is owned with no mortgage in joint names you have also not mentioned that he has ring fenced his enhanced contribution ( conversely though you paid half the stamp duty which would not have had to be paid if you were buying alone as a first time buyer). He also has ,in the past, offered with the £100,000 he has in savings ( now potentially for his share of the refurbishment costs) to pay your £50,000 training loan. The latter makes me think he likes money "working" for him ( i.e. presumably an unsecured professional training loan has a higher interest charge than most mortgages) also this explains him liking £100,000 being used to eg lower mortgage on a BTL mortgage. This idea of speculating to accumulate is further supported by branching into multiple BTL properties ( presumably taking out equity in each property as a deposit on the next property).
Conversely there is a lot I would be wary of ( you never know what life throws at you).
1: Not being married ( wills etc can be changed unilaterally)-You and your child could lose what he has built up, his share of the farmhouse if purchased as tenants in common could even be left to someone else.
2: Assuming you and partner can go without childcare costs despite only dropping your hours to 75% each (I assume you both normally work full-time)-children and babies are not predictable, you may have health issues after childbirth and your child may need extra care. The current plan offers little security if you have to drop your work hours . Childcare etc should be a shared cost proportionate to total joint income coming in.
3) I can understand if you want to think of the home you share with your partner as your joint responsibility ( so pay half living costs there so £390/month). This arrangement would be fairer if both on same wage but as yours is currently reduced by £500 a month you should at least pay it minus £250 i.e (and this is generous as it doesn't take into account BTL income-see below for what that income could be used for though). Obviously baby costs should be split according to income and this should take into account drop in income eg SMP. It is worrying you talk about saving for maternity leave ( this is joint cost).

Idea: Could you use his £100,000 to do most urgent repairs to get farmhouse livable? Then there are 5 rentable properties that could be rented out and profit maximized (esp. if their mortgages are changed to interest only) . This profit could be spent on the additional farmhouse refurbishment costs so hopefully no mortgage is required on the farmhouse to finish the refurbishment? Alternatively if the £100,000 is well allocated in such a way that the farmhouse increases in value by quite a bit you may be able to take out a standard ( and potentially cheaper) normal residential mortgage- as the bank/building society is not loaning against a potential increase in value but a more secure equity increase. Latterly if your career progress well and you out earn your partner your increase in earning may equal his profit from BTLs in his name so all may eventually be fairer and the farmhouse is joint names. However, do think about childcare ....here it costs circa £50 a day is it worth both of you cutting back on earnings/employer pension contributions/promotion opportunity/professional development? It may not be sensible long-term ( it depends on so many things and family time).

@honeylulu

"If you think you can get upduffed as a passport to not paying, no questions asked ... well ..."

My mother did indeed think that having 3 children (none of which my father actually wanted) meant that he 'owed' her for the rest of her life...she didn't have paid employment for 20 years after having my older brother. Was deeply offended when he suddenly lost his job and she had to go back to work in order to keep the house she'd forced him to buy 3 years previously....he then left her for OW 2 years later. House was sold and the small amount of equity split 50/50. That was 30 years ago and she still thinks to this day that he 'owes' her because she had his children...

He has 5 houses and the expenses for those are his, as are the profits. Do we combine that too?

If you get married, they become marital assets and become shared.

exactly what security does marriage provide that I don't already have?
If he died and you were married, the inheritance tax allowance passes to you. You would also get widow's benefits, and all the assets pass to you.

There are benefits to being married, that you don't get with just cohabiting. Look it up.

Bills shopping etc should be split 50 50 as should costs for baby. As for any costs related to his other properties they are nothing to do with you so why should you pay towards them. He gets money renting them out to cover those bills. Your never going to receive anything from it so he cannot expect you to foot the bill.

I don’t understand why you don’t just combine finances and be done with it. Just have one joint account that both your wages go in to and all expenses come out of.

I think you should both see a financial advisor. They will be able to help you decide the best way to use your cash savings. With so many investments and so much cash you could really be investing and making more profits with some advice.

You deserve more when you're having his baby.

You are being very defensive OP when people are just trying to help. In that case ..yes yes everything is fine and stay as you are. Although why you needed to start a thread for that I don’t know.

When redundancy was a real possibility for me, he brought up the idea of him paying off my training loan with his savings

This seems good, except I think to me this sentence expresses what I'm a little uneasy about - it's all 'he/his/my'. There seems to be no 'we/us/our' in the discussion.

From the point at which we were engaged, DH and I were a team and things were 'ours'. This didn't necessarily mean that we needed to have joint finances (though we did once married) but that in principle decisions were made to benefit the team - 'us'.

This is sad-you’re having his baby and he’s charging you rent? I don’t think I could continue a relationship with someone that tight.

Blimey this would not be for me.
Make sure you charge him the going rate for childcare when you look after his child.

It sounds like he has a convenient set up using your money to pay off his houses while charging you like a lodger. He’s being selfish. Make sure you have all your payments in writing should he try to claim that he’d paid for the farm house himself. Don’t risk being left out of pocket with a baby. If you’re sure you want to be with someone like this then I agree marriage will give you that protection, but honestly his mindset would put me off, it shouldn’t be his and hers it should be ours.

You are being very defensive OP when people are just trying to help. In that case ..yes yes everything is fine and stay as you are. Although why you needed to start a thread for that I don’t know.

This exactly

I can’t believe you’re paying ‘rent’. You’re the mother of his child not a lodger 🤦‍♀️ Tell him you’ll continue to pay what you’ve been paying or you’ll move out and he can pay maintenance.

I think I work for the same company! Or I will in the short term, and do a similar commute.

If you’re not going to get married just yet you need to be careful imo. First of all he needs to decide whether he wants a profit making lodger in his house or a partner. You shouldn’t be making him a profit! You should be splitting bills equally. Picking up the reins and paying everything in an emergency is different. As for him having all these other properties making rent - I’d be inclined to put less of your own money into the farmhouse and buy something else that you can rent out. A little insurance policy.. I wouldn’t put all my eggs into one basket with him just yet, because it doesn’t quite sound like he is.

I would (and have done) the percentage of salary in a joint account. I did 50% but you can decide one that makes sense for you.

Make a list of joint costs. I.e household, food, baby. We included car but not mobile phone. Those should all now be paid using the joint account. We also had joint savings for holidays/presents/etc using this salary percentage. Any personal costs including your partners rental properties should now be from personal accounts.

When you are on maternity reduced pay, my opinion is that you should not be covering the drop with your savings solely. Your baby is a joint cost, your reduced salary to have the baby is a joint cost and shouldn't be just on you to cover.