Feeling a bit humiliated by tactless friend

[bagpuss90]

This friend very kindly offered to lend me some money -when I had some lockdown cash flow problems. I’m self employed . I’d agreed to pay her back earlier this week . We were going to another friends house to sit in the garden I said Id slip her the money in an envelope then when we got a minute on our own which we would have done at some point . Six of us were there-all doing the social distancing thing. I did offer to do a bank transfer but she said she wanted cash-fair enough. Anyway we’d been there less than half an hour when she said”have you got the money you owe me please” ? This was in front of four other people -it all went quiet . I gave her the money in an envelope .
It might sound silly but I felt about “so big”. I hadn’t dragged my heels re paying it. I was paying it back bang on the time we’d agreed . We hadn’t been there hours and I’m sure I could have slipped in to her in the envelope I’d put it in at some point. Am I wrong in thinking this was at best bloody tactless and at worst slightly nasty ?

Is it possible that she also found this lockdown financially difficult after she had lent you the money?

If so, is it possible she wanted it in cash because she had an overdraft that would have swallowed up the money if you had transferred it into her account, and that she may have been relying on the cash to get her through a few weeks to pay for essentials?

Only you can know for sure by asking her, but I wouldn't assume that she had an ulterior motive for asking in front of you all. Maybe SHE was embarrassed to ask, but anxious about her own finances.

There's nothing shameful about paying back a loan, OP.

It's a lot of money to be carrying, and a sizeable loan between friends. You should have handed to her as soon as you saw her. No need to be all cloak and dagger about it.

She's kind and supportive enough to loan you money. I'm sorry her request made you feel uncomfortable but there's no reason why it should.

I think there is a lot of projection on this thread.

I think she possibly wanted it in cash because she wasn't sure OP would organise a transfer in a timely manner. As OP didnt give her the money immediately she thought she wasn't giving it to her.

No one on this thread has questioned whether OP has any sort of track record with these things.

As I said previously, OP created this issue by being so ashamed and not just openly handing it over. It could have been £20 for all anyone else knew.

I think it’s important to note that

“Not being unreasonable” to be hurt doesn’t automatically mean the other person is certainty deliberately malicious.

It just means, you have a very good reason to raise it with the person who hurt you and they do owe you to listen, because it is not irrational and it’s true that such behaviour could “contribute” to misunderstand snd hurr feeling and is worth clarifying.

It does not mean, you have the green light to “give the other person a taste of their own medicine”

It does not mean “you can assume they’re malicious and hence cut the friendship”.!

I think I’m more scared to be friends with someone like people posting on here tha I’m worried to be friends with someone like the lender..

Because it is absolutely “certain” that the people posting would need me to tip toe around them and that I would be “labelled” at the slight hint of a mistake.. instead of spoken to about it.

I’m a human with flaws. A great friend with flaws.

Ita not worth having a friend that would pick you apart whenever your human nature let’s you down into - drum rolls- doing something slightly thoughtless.

We ALL do thoughtless things from time to time. And we don’t all have the same background and so feel less Strongly about certain things and so it is OK to clash and be hurt by something that the other person was mindless about.

As long as when corrected they retrAct then it is FINE!!!!!

That’s why they created the concept of apologising

@ConfusedDotCom123. Finely put!!!! Couldn’t have said it better..

Is she perhaps somewhat narcissistic. I have been reading about this recently. It seems that being the centre of attention and making yourself appear the superior or better person is key, putting down someone else in front of others can help the n look good. Is there an element of this with her?

I think it's more likely that she thought you'd forget about the money and take it home with you. I doubt she thought you would try to wriggle out, as you'd made your payments in time and had offered to pay by bank transfer.

So I'd interpret it as a tactless reminder. Unless she has form for deliberately humiliating people.

Reflects worse on her than it does on you - don't be ashamed - if she'd called you out for not paying it back then you'd have a problem!

Though at the same time this really wouldn't bother me. I wasn't raised in the UK and have noticed people's unwillingness to be open about money and things like this are part of it.

@RedskyAtnight

At £500 it’s just as well you have witnesses OP.

I wonder if the friend has witnesses that she loaned OP the money in the first place? Probably not, since OP is so secretive about it.

Here's the post from the friend's perspective

"One of my friends had a cash flow problem during the early lockdown, so I agreed to lend her £500, on the basis she paid me back as soon as she was able. I was a bit wary about lending the money as you always worry about whether you will get it back, but figured I would trust her as she's a good friend. She's now in a position to repay the money so we agreed that she would give it to me when we next met up - in a mutual friend's garden for a socially distanced gathering of a few of us.

I got to the gathering and everyone said hello; host then spent a bit of time walking us round the garden and pointing out various things to us. The friend didn't mention anything about the money. At this point I was getting a bit nervous about whether she was actually going to pay up, so after we'd all sat down I just said "oh, did you have that money you owed me?". She handed it to me in an envelope (phew) but she's now telling me I was totally tactless and nasty the way I asked, and should have waited for her to quietly slip it to me. AIBU to think she should have just given me the money straight away and perhaps be a bit more grateful that I was generous enough to lend it to her? I certainly won't be bothering again.

This

She could have just asked, 'Could we please settle up now?' Referring to money owed to her is belittling, as a lot of people don't want friends to know that they've had cash flow problems.

She sounds terrible. However you’re going to a house party with five other people. Why didn’t you just hand her the envelope directly as soon as you arrived, rather than waiting for a super secret private moment. “Hi XYZ, Here’s what I owe, cheers!” Then turn away to get yourself a drink/go toilet etc.

That’s what I would’ve done. Seems British people get so hung up about money. Do it openly it’s not a big thing at all, for all others know she just paid for some tickets or whatever on her card and you’re just paying back your share.

How about this OP, seeing as it's what actually happened:-

"My friend owes me £500. She's been very communicative and offered to bank transfer but I prefer a cash repayment. She'd told me she has it today for me. We are half an hour in to a meet up at my house, I've given them a tour and we are now all sat together in the garden but my friend still hasn't paid me back! What should I do?"

OP would be told "oh she probably doesn't want to give it you in front of everyone and have them knowing you lent her money. Ask as she leaves if she still hasn't given it to you but she's probably waiting to get you on your own."

🤷🏼‍♀️

Thinking about the logistics of this... there were 6 people, and the house wasn’t either of yours. So why did you think you’d have a minute on your own at some point? I don’t see how that minute would ever have arisen - and if it did (you heading to the loo as she heads out of it?) - why would have had a not tiny £500 stuffed envelope on you at that moment? I just don’t see how you were ever going to be alone.

I would have asked for cash because I hate going to bank cash points at the moment!

She didn't handle it brilliantly and I would have winced at her wording - but she lent you money when you needed it and you paid it back when you said you would. You've both done the right thing overall.

She wanted everyone to know she lent you money ... to BIG herself up... putting you down was collateral 🌺

I think she was worried you wouldn't have it. You were causing her anxiety by not giving it to her right away.

YgritteSnow No, I don't think that's how the MN thread would have gone. People would've believed the worst, as in this thread, and said the friend was a 'CF' who was trying to avoid paying the money back. The lender would've been told to march right over and ask loudly for the money so the friend couldn't wriggle out of it.

I wonder if there's a previous thread on similar lines so we can see who's right...

@ZoeTurtle

I don't agree

She wanted everyone to know she lent you money ... to BIG herself up.

Here are instances when I've repaid money to friends.

1. Friend buys flowers for mutual friend having a hard time. I agree to split the cost with her. Give her money back when I see her next.

1. I don't have change for a parking metre. Friend gives me a couple of quid. I promise to give it back when I see her.

1. We split the bill in a restaurant. I only have big notes. Friend says she'll just put it on her card and to pay her back later.

Not sure how in any of those occasions friend asking for the money back would be "bigging herself up".

It's not as though she'd said "Please can you give me back the £500 I owe you" "Bagpuss had a bit of a cash flow problem so I had to lend her some money". That would be tactless and nasty. Just asking for an unspecified sum of money used for an unspecified purpose - not so much.

@CustardySergeant

"It sounds a bit tactless, but maybe she didn't want a bank transfer because she's overdrawn."

I don't understand. Surely if she was overdrawn, someone putting money into her account would be a good thing.

No, because the bank will use it to clear the overdraft rather than you having the money to spend.

Anyway, maybe she just likes cash :)

@GreenRoads

If a friend lent me £500 in the middle of a pandemic, I'd be focusing more on what a decent and generous thing to do it was than on whether the lender should have intuited my curious sense of shame about the exchange and gone along with my hole and corner ideas about handing over the repayment money in secret.

Agree!

The OP sounds ungrateful.

@GreenRoads 'hole and corner ideas' this made me giggle - but true! How was money-lending friend to know that there was a super secret spy handover planned??

And now someone on the thread is calling the friend a narcissist! For asking about money they are owed! 🤦 Yep that is absolute bat-shittery!!

People who are comfortable for money may not realise the embarrassment others feel from having to borrow. Doesn't make them bad people. Just had different life experiences.

I think most likely it popped into her head that she needed to remember to get the money off you, and never occurred to her that you would mind her asking like that.

The fact she didn't want bacs and then processed to ask so publicly after your conversation makes me think it was deliberate attempt to show everyone how great she was to lend you money.

I would have replied something like "well I guess the discreet repayment we agreed to isn't happening anymore"