Feeling a bit humiliated by tactless friend

[bagpuss90]

This friend very kindly offered to lend me some money -when I had some lockdown cash flow problems. I’m self employed . I’d agreed to pay her back earlier this week . We were going to another friends house to sit in the garden I said Id slip her the money in an envelope then when we got a minute on our own which we would have done at some point . Six of us were there-all doing the social distancing thing. I did offer to do a bank transfer but she said she wanted cash-fair enough. Anyway we’d been there less than half an hour when she said”have you got the money you owe me please” ? This was in front of four other people -it all went quiet . I gave her the money in an envelope .
It might sound silly but I felt about “so big”. I hadn’t dragged my heels re paying it. I was paying it back bang on the time we’d agreed . We hadn’t been there hours and I’m sure I could have slipped in to her in the envelope I’d put it in at some point. Am I wrong in thinking this was at best bloody tactless and at worst slightly nasty ?

If that had happened in front of me I'd have assumed that she'd got something for you and you were paying it back, and then after that not given a second thought.

Interesting that people here seem to think she did it deliberately to be mean, when she'd been nice enough to lend it (if she'd asked on here if she should people would have said a resounding "no") and if the Op had handed it to her as soon as she'd arrived, which the friend had no need to think she wouldn't, then no one would have known, so you can't think she'd planned it carefully.

If she'd put a thread on here "I lent £500 to my friend, and she said she'd pay me back today, but she's arrived and said nothing about it" the response would have been "ask her for it straight away". That's all she's done.

@IndecentFeminist

But she didn't know that you needed privacy, and presumably you're pretty good friends if you know her well enough to borrow a fair bit of money from her?

Anyone would know that was a private matter. The fact that the others were embarrassed and went quiet shows what a big faux pas the woman made.

If I was one of the other people, the fact you had the money ready in an envelope would have shown you weren’t trying to shirk repaying, so don’t worry about it. I’d have thought badly of the lender for that faux pas, not of you.

This

If that had happened in front of me I'd have assumed that she'd got something for you and you were paying it back, and then after that not given a second thought.

I would have thought this exact thing.
I often buy things for people/them buy it for me and we give the money when we next see each other.
It is happening more frequently now because it’s harder to pop in and get one thing so you might as well pick up 2.
I picked up a lovely garden ornament a couple days ago and there was one left so I rang my sister in the shop to see if she’d want it and I’ll ask her for the money next time I see her.

If you think this is ok, then you're probably as ill mannered as the "friend" tbh.

I think you probably just have very different attitudes to money. It sounds like your friend is like me- I don’t think borrowing money is anything to be ashamed of and I’d have no problem saying “here’s the money I owe you” in front of others.

In fact, I’d find the whole sneaky-sneaky, clandestine, “slip you an envelope” stuff awkward. It just makes it seem like a bigger deal than it is, especially if someone had spotted you trying to be discreet.

Neither of you are being unreasonable. You just view money differently.

If you think this is ok, then you're probably as ill mannered as the "friend" tbh.

Or perhaps they aren't ashamed of discussing money like the OP?

If a friend owed me money, said they were bringing it to a mutual friends house and made zero reference or acknowledgement to it for nearly an hour once we were there, I'd ask for it too.

It is not ill mannered to ask for your property back. It would have been ill mannered and humiliating for the friend to openly discuss the OPs finances in detail, but that didnt happen. She just asked for her (unspecified amount of) money (that was being exchanged for unspecified reasons).

Or perhaps they aren't ashamed of discussing money like the OP?

Or perhaps OP, like most people doesn't want her entire friendship group knowing her financial situation?

If you trust a friend enough to lend them £500 then surely you can wait a couple more hours to get it back. It's not about embarrassment or shame, it's about wanting your privacy respected, or do you somehow forfeit that because you were so sub par to need to borrow money in the first place?

Yanbu how awful it was a private arrangement. I doubt anyone else there thought she was right. She'd swiftly be an ex friend

The fact that she declined bank transfer and wanted cash, and then did that - she definitely wanted everyone to know she had loaned you money. I dont think she did it to make you look bad. She did it to make herself look good. How unfortunate for her that its probaby had the opposite effect

@NoMoreReluctantCustodians

The fact that she declined bank transfer and wanted cash, and then did that - she definitely wanted everyone to know she had loaned you money. I dont think she did it to make you look bad. She did it to make herself look good. How unfortunate for her that its probaby had the opposite effect

How do you know that? Far too many posters want to think the absolute worst of the money lender. I do think it odd though that she wanted cash rather than a bank transfer. Most places don't want their customers to use cash these days.

Or perhaps OP, like most people doesn't want her entire friendship group knowing her financial situation?

But they dont know her financial situation.

All they know is that the OP owes her friend some money. It could have been £20 for a takeaway, it could have been £50 for event tickets that had been purchased for the two of them, it could have been £100 for a cancelled trip that had been refunded or it could have been £500 from a loan repayment. The Friend did not say what the money was for or how much it was, they just asked directly for it. That is not rude or humiliating behaviour.

Any shame is being attached by the OP not the situation. If any of my friendship group asked another for the return of money nobody would bat an eyelid (provided it was done politely) as they would assume it was just a repayment for a joint purchase etc and it would only be an issue I'd it was done nastily or by airing the borrowers details - neither or which the friend did.

As for the people saying it's weird she wanted cash - perhaps she still pays for services with cash and getting to the bank/ATM is difficult? My window cleaner prefers cash, I still give cash to DD, my greengrocer prefers cash, as do taxi drivers etc but I live nowhere near an ATM. Why is it ok to question the friends finances and motives but the OPs insistence of a clandestine loan repayment is not ok to question?

All I take from that wall of text and justifications and "what ifs" - none of why apply to the OP, is that you think it's ok and therefore are as ill mannered as the friend. Where's the respect for how other people might feel? Why's it all about you and how you feel about it? As the lender you are in the position of power. Doing this feels like punching down, however you spin it. Sorry 🤷🏼‍♀️

I think most of us could tell that an envelope is containing £500 over one containing £20 note. It would be far thicker.
So yes it would be far more obvious it was for something big and as nothing was said "I can't wait for the concert/thanks for picking me up that garden ornament " then it was more of a loan type or something that the people were not mentioning for sone reason.
And being asked direct for the money sort of indicated that you hadn't paid it back promptly and had to be chased for it.

It was out of order, but also she lent you money when you needed it which was kind. On the balance of things I’d let it go.

She knew what she was doing all right. She knew full well it would go one of two ways:

1 - you had brought the money, but it was embarrassing to have to repay money in front of people. It might also make the others think that you'd borrowed money before and had been reluctant to pay it back.

2 - you didn't have it, and she wanted to humiliate you in front of everyone.

Don't borrow money from her again.

I think most of us could tell that an envelope is containing £500 over one containing £20 note. It would be far thicker.

I work in a shop and I handle cash all day. £500 in £20 is obviously thicker than a single £20 but you could easily put £500 in an envelope and it looks no bulkier than an average birthday card. Its hardly like she needed a suitcase to haul it around.

you think it's ok and therefore are as ill mannered as the friend. Where's the respect for how other people might feel? Why's it all about you and how you feel about it? As the lender you are in the position of power. Doing this feels like punching down, however you spin it.

It is not I'll mannered to politely ask for your money back. Where is the respect for the person gracious enough to lend - a not insignificant amount of - money during a pandemic to, at the very least, acknowledge that they had their money at the earliest moment rather than blanking her until she asked?

The friend did not give out the OPs financial information, they merely asked for their money to be returned. That is not ill mannered.

Yes, it is. But you don't get it because you clearly are too. Just going to have to agree to disagree on this one I am afraid.

It was an absolutely rotten thing to do, she knew full well and I would have snapped at her there and then about her lack of sensitivity. Don’t tell her anything person again. How awful

It was very kind of her to lend you the money. I can't think of a single friend that would lend me a large sum of money. However it was very thoughtless of her to ask you openly in front of other friends. I would have felt the same OP, totally humiliated. I would have said something along the lines of ‘of course I have DF, here it is, however, I thought we’d agreed on the phone the other day that I would give it to you in private?’

YANBU.

I'd have to say something to her - thank her but add that I really didn't appreciate my private business being aired for everyone and - directly ask why she felt the need to do what she did in front of everyone.

It would not have occurred to me to pay someone back stealthily. And it wouldn’t bother me if someone asked if I had it. She probably thought you would have given it to her immediately and wondered what was up. I doubt she had mean intentions.

Really horrid hate anything to do with money . Hate anyone that makes another person feel small . Your “friends “poor human choice there Shouldn’t make you feel bad 😔